HOUSING BILL (Hansard, 24 July 1974)

§ Mr. Speaker
I now have to acquaint the House with a message from the other place. The Lords agree to the Housing Bill with amendments for which they desire the concurrence of the Commons. I should also inform the House that the Lords only completed consideration of these amendments today and the amendments only reached the authorities of this House at 8.30 p.m. Every effort is being made by the Public Bill Offices of both Houses to ensure that copies provided for hon. Members are accurate and intelligible, but the House will appreciate that this has been done under considerable difficulty, particularly having regard to the present lack of printing facilities.
I must also tell the House that in the short time available I have had no opportunity to identify those Lords amendments, if any, which involve privilege. I hope that the House will be willing to make a general waiver of privilege should it be involved with these amendments at any point. Any case in which privilege is involved will be identified subsequently and recorded in the Journal in the proper form.
Lords amendments to be considered forthwith.—[Mr. Kaufman.]

§ Mr. Speaker
The Question is, That the Lords Amendments to the Housing Bill be considered forthwith.

§ Mr. David Price (Eastleigh)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if you can assist the House? I find it difficult to know how we can proceed with this matter when the Bill is not available. I made inquiries in the Vote Office and was told that the Bill was not available. I came into the House at five minutes to ten and found that there was no list of amendments. With great respect to both Front Benches and to the Leader of the House, and speaking in the best interests of Parliament, I find it incredibly difficult to see how we can proceed further with this matter tonight.

§ The Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. Edward Short)
There is nothing unusual about this procedure. We have checked and we find that the amendments are 1738 available now. There may be some slight inconvenience, but I hope that the House feels able to proceed with this matter.

§ Mr. Graham Page (Crosby)
Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. It may be that the amendments are available now but they have not been available for consideration, at least by those of us on the back benches. I hope that this situation will not be used as a precedent. It may be that it is a special occasion, but can it be said firmly that it will not be used as a precedent in future?

§ Mr. Edward Short
I regret the present circumstances and I agree with the right hon. Gentleman. I understand that the amendments were available at 8.20 p.m., and I hope that the House feels able to proceed with them.

§ Mr. Paul Tyler (Bodmin)
Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is the Leader of the House also aware that transcripts of the House of Lords debate on the amendments are certainly not available and thus we cannot have a clue, as back benchers, of what the amendments are based on?

§ Mr. Edward Short
Obviously the transcripts cannot be available because the debate took place today. I repeat that there is nothing unusual in this procedure. It has occurred many times previously.

§ The Minister for Housing and Construction (Mr. Reginald Freeson)
Perhaps it may be for the convenience of the House, in view of the circumstances in which we find ourselves, if I move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendments to the Bill.

§ Mr. Speaker
Is it the wish of the House that the amendments should be taken together?

§ Mr. Hugh Rossi (Horney)
May I first thank the Minister for the courtesy that he has extended to my right hon. Friend and me in making available to us early today his notes on the Government amendments in the Lords? I assure my right hon. Friend and my hon. Friends 1739 that all the Government amendments in the Lords are acceptances of amendments which we moved in this House and which the Government undertook to bring into the statute. There are in addition one or two drafting amendments. On that basis, my right hon. Friend and I are happy to accept the Minister's proposal.

§ Mr. David Steel (Roxburgh, Selkirk and Peebles)
This is an intolerable way for Parliament to proceed. We support the Bill, but it is intolerable that we should proceed on the basis of written notes passing between Front Benchers which are unknown to back benchers. If we are to prevent this place becoming a shambles we must restore order to our proceedings.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. Exactly what is the hon. Gentleman saying? Is he objecting to the Minister's suggestion?

§ Mr. David Steel
Yes.—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I hope that the House will he sensible about this. If it is not acceptable for the amendments to be taken together, perhaps they might be taken in smaller groups which the Minister might suggest.

§ Mr. David Steel
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. My objection is that if notes can be sent to one party they can be sent to all parties. We will not accept that notes passed between the two Front Benches are binding on the rest of the House.

§ Mr. Speaker
Whatever sympathy I may have with the hon. Gentleman, that is not a matter for the Chair.

§ Mr. Rossi
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. If it is of assistance, I can tell the House that the Minister paid all the members of the Standing Committee on the Bill the courtesy of supplying them with notes of the amendments.

§ Mr. Tyler
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. The Liberal Party was not given a place on the Standing Committee. Therefore, we have had no notes. We have had no notice of what is to happen this evening.

§ Mr. Douglas Henderson (Aberdeenshire, East)
On a point of order, Mr. 1740 Speaker. I was not on the Standing Committee—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. We must get on as best we can. If it is unacceptable to take the amendments all together, may we take them in smaller groups? Perhaps the Minister will suggest a grouping.

§ Mr. Freeson
In those circumstances, Mr. Speaker, perhaps I might move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendments to Part I of the Bill.

§ Mr. David Steel
No.

§ Mr. John Pardoe (Cornwall, North)
This is a shambles.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. May we have a little more quiet and not so much advice? In the circumstances, it will be necessary for the House to divide on each Lords amendment.