HC Deb 11 July 1974 vol 876 cc1550-8
Mr. Heath

Would the Leader of the House be so kind as to give us the business for next week?

The Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. Edward Short)

Yes, Sir. The business for next week will be as follows:

MONDAY 15th July—Proceedings on the Northern Ireland Bill.

Remaining stages of the Policing of Airports Bill, of the Railways Bill and of the Land Tenure Reform (Scotland) Bill.

TUESDAY 16th July and WEDNESDAY 17th July—Progress on the Report stage of the Finance Bill.

THURSDAY 18th July—Motion on the Counter-Inflation (Abolition of Pay Board) Order.

Consideration of any Lords Amendments which may be received to the Health and Safety at Work etc. Bill.

FRIDAY 19th July—Remaining stages of the Consumer Credit Bill [Lords], and of the Control of Pollution Bill [Lords].

MONDAY 22nd July—Completion of the remaining stages of the Finance Bill.

Mr. Heath

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that announcement. Can he tell us whether, and if so when, the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be making an announcement about any economic measures he may wish to take? Second, I understand that there is to be an important statement by the Secretary of State for Energy about oil policy. Will the Leader of the House note that this is such an important matter that we shall probably want to debate it before the House rises? Third, can he assure us that the White Paper which the Government intend to publish about the nationalisation and State control of British industry will be published before the House rises and that there will be a full opportunity to debate it before the recess?

Mr. Short

On the Chancellor's statement, I hope that the two-day debate on economic affairs will be the week after next. I cannot say whether the Chancellor will be making a statement before the debate or in the debate, but I will certainly pass on the question to him. Second, on my right hon. Friend's very important statement on oil today, there will be an opportunity to debate this subject before the recess. On industry, I cannot say whether the White Paper will be published before the recess, but, whether it is or not, I am very sorry but we cannot find any time to debate it before the recess.

Mr. Heath

We are grateful for the information that the right hon. Gentleman has given us about the debate, but will he note that I think that hon Members on both sides of the House would wish the Chancellor to make his statement at least the day before the debate so that we may have proper opportunity to consider it before either Front Benchers or back benchers give their views about it in the two-day debate? It is not satisfactory, particularly for the first day's debate, that we should have the statement at the beginning of the debate with no opportunity to give it proper consideration. Would the right hon. Gentleman convey these views to the Chancellor.

I asked about the White Paper on nationalisation. It is quite unsatisfactory that a White Paper of this kind should be published when the House is in recess and it is equally unsatisfactory, if it is published when the House is sitting, that there should be no opportunity to debate a matter of this importance. If the right hon. Gentleman is hoping that the House will rise on Wednesday 31st July, as we understand, I would point out that the whole House would be prepared to sit for the extra day to debate that White Paper.

Mr. Short

On the first point, there are precedents both ways; I have looked into the matter. On some occasions Chancellors have made a statement before the debate and on others during the debate. However, I will certainly convey what the right hon. Gentleman has said to my right hon. Friend. On the second point, it is a generally accepted rule here that when a very important White Paper has been published there should be time to allow people to discuss it and talk about it and consider it before it is debated in the House.

Dr. John A. Cunningham

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the House has been waiting a very long time for a statement on the Government's proposals in respect of the Hardman Report? Can my right hon. Friend assure us that we shall have such a statement before we rise for the Summer Recess?

Mr. Short

I know about my hon. Friend's concern for Cumberland and about the concern of other hon. Members from the development areas. Certainly I hope that a statement will be made before the recess.

Sir Harmar Nicholls

The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Report of the Committee of Privileges on the complaint made by the right hon. Member for Bristol, South-East (Mr. Benn) has been issued today. Are we likely to have an opportunity to get the House to accept the findings of the Committee next week, or is that not necessary in view of the fact that the Committee was unanimous in saying that there was no ground for complaint? Does the Committee's finding mean that people outside may take any steps in the courts that they may wish to take? If they decide not to take steps in the courts, shall we have the evidence which was not included in the report because of the possibility that there might be a court action made available to hon. Members?

Finally, can the right hon. Gentleman say what has happened to the Report of the Committee of Privileges on the matter relating to the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (Mr. Ashton), which it considered earlier?

Mr. Short

On the first issue which the hon. Member for Peterborough (Sir H. Nicholls) has raised, the report was published at 12 o'clock today. I do not think it will be necessary to debate it in the House. It is up to people outside this House to take what action they wish to take now.

I am not sure what the answer is to the other matter that the hon. Gentleman raised. I will look into it and let him know.

Mr. Ford

When does my right hon. Friend intend to publish the Boyle Report on Members' allowances? Can he give a date for his announcement in this connection to assist hon. Members with their secretarial arrangements?

Mr. Short

I shall make a statement on the Boyle Report before the recess.

Mr. Geoffrey Finsherg

Will the right hon. Gentleman say when he expects to find time for a debate upon his own motion about security and passes for hon. Members?

Mr. Short

I hope that this matter will be debated during the week after next.

Mr. Arthur Lewis

My right hon. Friend will be aware of the very great concern felt by London teachers at the Pay Board's so-called report on the London weighting question. In view of the intense annoyance and anger which has been caused by this, if my right hon. Friend cannot find time for a debate, will he have discussions with all those responsible in order to try to get some sense into this matter?

Mr. Short

My hon. Friend will know that I myself am very concerned about this matter, as are the Government. It is now being negotiated in the Burnham Committee. Until it resolves the matter, I think that we had better leave it there.

Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop

When will the Government announce the measures that they intend to take, pursuant to the resolution passed by this House recently, to give another supplementary rate support grant for which many millions of people are waiting?

Mr. Short

The hon. Gentleman will have seen what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment said about this, and he will know about the inquiry that we have set up. I have nothing to add at the moment. If the hon. Gentleman cares to put a Question to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, I am sure that he will get an answer.

Mr. Donald Stewart

May I raise two matters with the Leader of the House? First, when shall we have a debate on Scottish affairs? Secondly, what progress has been made towards providing facilities for Opposition parties? Will the right hon. Gentleman take it from me, as leader of one party in this House which is expanding instead of contracting, that this is of some interest to me?

Mr. Short

In reply to the hon. Gentleman's first question, I am afraid that I cannot promise any more time before the recess. As for his second question, I hope to talk to him and his hon. Friends some time in the next few days and to make a statement before the recess.

Mr. George Cunningham

My right hon. Friend will recall the concern expressed on both sides of the House two weeks ago about the proposal in respect of political appointments in the Civil Service. Can my right hon. Friend tell us that the matter will be discussed in the House before we go into recess?

Mr. Short

No, Sir. I cannot. What I undertook was that there would be an opportunity to debate the matter before the Government took any further action.

Mr. Churchill

Is the Leader of the House aware that I have already followed his advice, given a moment ago, to my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton (Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop), by putting down a Question to the Secretary of State for Environment about the implementation of the express wish of Parliament for an urgent measure of rate relief this year, and that I have been given an answer to the effect that the implications of this parliamentary vote are being considered by the Government? Can the right hon. Gentleman say when some measure is likely to be put before the House? Does he appreciate that we shall expect a statement before we go into recess?

Mr. Short

No, Sir. I cannot. As I said just now, I have nothing to add to that. It means what it says. My right hon. Friend is considering the implications of this vote.

Mr. George Lawson

Will my right hon. Friend find time to permit the House to debate the proposals arising out of the Kilbrandon Report so that it can be made very clear that, if a legislative assembly is given to Scotland, there will be no possibility of a Secretary of State for Scotland and 71 Members of Parliament from Scotland continuing in this House?

Mr. Short

Without commenting on or accepting the latter part of my hon. Friend's statement, the time to debate this matter will be when the Government have concrete proposals to put before the House.

Sir John Rodgers

Will the Leader of the House give consideration to the problems arising from the printing of HANSARD and parliamentary papers? The present system is a total disgrace. Ought we not to have a system whereby parliamentary papers are printed either in or near this House, under the control of this House and where conditions of employment are such that striking is not allowed?

Mr. Short

The hon. Gentleman knows that this has been one of my major preoccupations for the past fortnight. I have checked on the business for next week, and I am assured that all papers will be available for those debates. I ask hon. Members to exercise a little good will in this, as we did when we were in Opposition, and perhaps put up with a little inconvenience.

Mr. David Steel

Since the right hon. Gentleman has said that there is no time for a debate in the House on Scottish affairs, may I draw his attention to the fact that there are still four meetings of the Scottish Grand Committee remaining which are not yet earmarked? Will not the right hon. Gentleman allow at least a two-day debate there on the Kilbrandon proposals?

Mr. Short

I will look into that possibility.

Mr. Spriggs

Has my right hon. Friend considered the early-day motion about concessionary television licences which recalls that quite a number of members of the present Government signed similar motions in the last Parliament? What consideration is my right hon. Friend giving to allowing the House to debate this matter?

That this House, recalling the Early Day Motions on the granting of concessionary television licences to retirement pensioners signed during the last Parliament by Labour Members of this honourable House, including Ministers in the present administration, calls upon Her Majesty's Government to introduce immediately concessionary television licences to aged persons living as separate households, similar to those granted to aged persons occupying accommodation having a shared service.

Mr. Short

I cannot provide time for a debate on this matter, but the Government are reviewing the situation at the moment.

Mr. Fidler

Will there be an announcement next week in relation to Members' expenses and other allowances? I do not know whether at the same time the right hon. Gentleman will be in a position to refer to Member's salaries.

Mr. Short

I shall be making a statement before the recess on the four aspects of Members' expenses which I referred to Lord Boyle.

Mr. Raphael Tuck

May I press my right hon. Friend a little further on the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Newham, North-West (Mr. Lewis)? May we have an indication as to when we are likely to debate the very sore question of local allowances to teachers and nurses in places such as Watford which are sadly neglected by the Pay Board Report? Is not my right hon. Friend aware that these teachers and nurses are very distressed by the neglect?

Mr. Short

As I said in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Newham, North-West (Mr. Lewis), we share the concern of hon. Members about this matter, but the Burnham Committee is negotiating on the report at present.

Mrs. Knight

Is the Leader of the House aware that what he said about the printing of parliamentary papers was very far from satisfactory? Has the right hon. Gentleman seen what purports to be yesterday's HANSARD? Is he aware, further, that the work of hon. Members is being severely hampered because of the lack of proper papers?

Mr. Short

I realise that hon. Members are being put to considerable inconvenience, as they have been in the past. All I ask is that they show a little good will in this difficult matter. Just as the previous administration did in similar circumstances, we shall do our best.

Mr. McNamara

In view of my right hon. Friend's helpful and encouraging reply last week about a Second Reading for the Hare Coursing Bill, is he in a position to indicate on which night that will be taken, and whether we shall be able to take the remaining stages afterwards?

Mr. Short

I do not know when it will be, but it will be some time before the recess. If my hon. Friend will try again tomorrow, we shall see where we go from there.

Mr. Hurd

May I press the point made by the hon. Member for the Western Isles (Mr. Stewart). Will the Leader of the House ensure that proper time is made available for debating the proposal about help for political parties and that we do not have only a statement? Does he accept that hon. Members on both sides of the House will probably want to look carefully at any proposals for compelling the taxpayer to finance the activities of political parties?

Mr. Short

A certain amount is done now. The Opposition are to some extent financed at the present time. We felt that in a modern democracy we should help Opposition parties to carry out their duties more efficiently. The proposals will be published before the recess and I shall be making an announcement in the House. They will not come into operation until after the recess. Therefore, if the House wishes, and I could be informed through the usual channels, I could probably arrange an opportunity to debate these proposals after the recess.

Mr. Urwin

Will my right hon. Friend use his influence to ensure that a Bill will be presented to the House before the recess aimed at the control of labour-only sub-contracting in the construction industry, which is a matter of vital importance? Amidst the clamour for debates about Scotland and Kilbrandon, does he appreciate that it is equally important to find time to discuss the economic development of the Northern Region and other development areas?

Mr. Short

On the second point, I agree that some of our debates on regional development have been the most useful in this House, and when we have time we shall resume them. I think that my hon. Friend talked about the Northern Region.

The Government are actively considering the control of labour-only subcontracting and will bring proposals before the House in the not-too-distant future.

Several hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. We must move on.

Mr. Onslow

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Arising from the reply by the Leader of the House relating to parliamentary papers, may I draw attention to the fact that he may have overdone it in making sure that we have ample papers before us because two motions on overseas aid, for voting if not debate, later this evening are backed by two different draft statutory instruments applying to each, which are available in the Vote Office? I suggest that it would be as well, since one involves the expenditure of £68 million, for the House to ensure that it is approving the right copy of the statutory instrument. May I invite the Leader of the House to consider whether this large sum of money should come within the scope of Standing Order No. 73A(5).

Mr. Short

I will look into it.