HC Deb 03 July 1974 vol 876 cc378-81
17. Dr. Hampson

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will now announce the date from which relief from sewerage charges will be granted to the owners of septic tanks.

18. Mr. Michael Marshall

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he expects to announce the date from which relief will be given to those paying sewerage charges who lack main drainage facilities

19. Mr. Hurd

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he can now say from which date he hopes to make effective the new arrangements under which sewerage charges will no longer be levied on householders for whom a main sewerage service is not provided.

22. Mr. Banks

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what progress he has made designed to ensure that 1975 rate demands will differentiate the sewerage rate for those dwellings with and without main sewerage connections.

Mr. Denis Howell

My right hon. Friend has asked the National Water Council for urgent advice on the problem generally. Meanwhile water authorities, in collaboration with the responsible local authorities, are trying to identify the properties affected.

Dr. Hampson

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that thousands and thousands of ratepayers—acknowledge the difficulty of finding the information that he has mentioned—believe that his Department is back-sliding on a commitment by his hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State, the Member for Widness (Mr. Oakes)? When he finds the information, what does the Minister intend to do? Does he not think it only fair that those who have paid their sewerage rate this year should have their septic tanks emptied free of charge by the local authority and that the cost should be borne if necessary by the water authority?

Mr. Howell

This problem would not have arisen at all had it not been for the obnoxious Act which the previous administration passed, which took water away from democratic control and created nine nationalised industries which are totally independent of Government control. We have identified the problem. I have already announced that we intend to deal with it in time for next year's water charges. That, I think, is speedy action.

Dr. Hampson

What about this year?

Mr. George Cunningham

If people with septic tanks will not pay part of the sewerage charge, will the Minister assure us that the valuation placed upon their premises will not be abated because they have septic tanks?

Mr. Howell

My hon. Friend mentions an interesting point which illustrates one of the complexities of the matter—namely, that even if householders have septic tanks the deposits from the tanks must be treated by the community and that they cannot, therefore, be totally exempted from rating. We are considering these difficult matters and we intend to produce proposals in time for next year's charges.

Mr. Hurd

Does the Minister accept that there is nothing in the Water Act to prevent his making the change which my right hon. and hon. Friends are suggesting? When the hon. Gentleman lays stress on administrative difficulties, let him bear in mind the attitude of the people who attend the rate protest meetings, to which my hon. Friends and I are constantly invited. For the Secretary of State to talk about hypocrisy in this context is absurd. Does the Minister accept that the people at rate protest meetings do not understand the Government's point about administrative difficulties? The hon. Gentleman is dealing with whole villages, which as everybody knows do not have main sewerage facilities. To identify the villages cannot be a major administrative problem.

Mr. Howell

I think that all the protesters now realise that the present Opposition, when they passed the Water Act, did not understand what they were doing, in spite of the fact that we warned them time and again with the support of Liberal Members. The hon. Gentleman is asking me to act on certain information. We do not have authority in law to take those steps, but we intend to deal with the matter as soon as we can.

Mr. Tomlinson

Does my hon. Friend accept that although the electors of Mid-Oxfordshire might have difficulty in understanding the problem, the electors of the Meriden constituency have suffered as extensively as anyone and that they appreciate that the responsibility for sewerage lies exclusively with Conservative Members?

Mr. Howell

Yes indeed. That is why my hon. Friend is here and will be here with an increased majority following the next election.

Mr. Banks

Is the Minister aware that many people are concerned that sewerage rates are levied not by an elected authority but by appointed persons? Will he undertake to look into the matter?

Mr. Howell

Not only do I understand the position but I voted against the Water Act.

Mr. Kimball

Is the Minister aware that his right hon. Friend's argument that these properties cannot be identified does not carry weight? The rating and valuation authorities can identify the properties concerned. What consultations is he having with those authorities to speed up identification?

Mr. Howell

My right hon. Friend and I have met the water authorities. Within two weeks they have corresponded with every local authority. Some authorities say that they can identify these properties but the majority say that they cannot. What we are certain about is that the properties must all be identified in time for next year's water charges.

Mr. Hordern

The Minister must recognise that the practice of placing a sewerage charge on households without sewers is an absurdity.

Mr. Raphael Tuck

You did it.

Mr. Hordern

The Minister must realise that no amount of talk on administrative difficulty will suffice. It is essential to get the situation right and to do so now.

Mr. Howell

We recognise and agree with that. The unfortunate thing is that the Water Act was rushed through the House. The authority was set up and it had only three months in which to recruit staff to take over the work and get the system going. That undue haste to change the democratic structure of the water industry is the cause of all our difficulties.