HC Deb 09 December 1974 vol 883 cc4-6
2. Mr. Trotter

asked the Secretary of State for Industry whether he is yet able to estimate the cost to public funds of acquiring the shipbuilding, ship repairing and marine engineering industries.

The Under-Secretary of State for Industry (Mr. Michael Meacher)

No, Sir. Though the Government have, of course, made their own estimates of the likely cost of nationalisation on a range of possible assumptions, it will not be practicable to make an estimate of the actual cost until the basis of compensation has been decided.

Mr. Trotter

Will the hon. Gentleman explain to the hard-up public why he insists on spending his time and millions of pounds of their money on taking over such prosperous concerns as Swan Hunter, Yarrow, Vosper and Scott Lithgow? Does he not agree that his time would be better spent on trying to prevent other firms from going bust?

Mr. Meacher

It is impossible to get the industry-wide planning in shipbuilding which the Shipbuilders and Repairers National Association wants unless all the relevant companies are taken into public control. I point out to the hon. Gentleman, however, that no other world shipbuilding industry over the past 25 years has had complete stagnation in output at the same time as world output has increased five times. That is a situation which nationalisation will change.

Dr. Dickson Mabon

Does my hon. Friend intend to put this information and other matters into a White Paper, or, in view of the parliamentary timetable, is there not to be a White Paper but rather a Bill introduced reasonably soon in view of the uncertainty hanging over investment plans in the industry?

Mr. Meacher

My hon. Friend is entirely right to put the emphasis on bringing forward a Bill at the earliest possible moment in view of the uncertainty in the transition to public ownership. Because of the narrowness of the time scale between completion of consultations and introduction of a Bill, I cannot guarantee that there will be a White Paper, but our proposals will be fully presented to the House with the arguments behind them.

Mr. Grylls

Can the hon. Gentleman say who is to run these industries more efficiently than the present management?

Mr. Meacher

The efficiency of the existing companies is very difficult to understand when they have needed no less than £155 million since 1965 in order to stay afloat, and they are still asking for more money now. No industry has failed to modernise to the same degree as the shipbuilding industry of this country, and I am fully certain that if this industry is under public control those who run it under public control will give it the investment that is required.