HC Deb 04 December 1974 vol 882 cc1533-5
5. Mr. Monro

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what progress his discussions have made with the Football Association, the Football League, the police and others concerned towards a reduction of hooliganism at football matches and on football specials run by British Rail.

28. Mr. Blaker

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what steps he proposes to take to improve means of dealing with football hooliganism.

The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (Mr. Denis Howell)

We have concentrated first on devising means of ensuring that movement on football terraces is restricted as much as possible and of keeping members of the public off the playing area except in emergency. Recommendations on these lines have been circulated to all first and second division clubs by the Football Association and the Football League. Many of the principal clubs have already acted upon them or are proposing to do so as soon as it practicable. I shall continue to pursue their implementation. British Rail and the police are co-operat- ing fully with my working party on the problems which arise outside the grounds.

Mr. Monro

I thank the Minister for that statement. Will he accept that I am glad that in general there has been an improvement since the earlier part of the season? Is he aware that I shall join with him in any measures which can be shown to be helpful to the situation? Does he agree that at present we must give the maximum support to the police and the magistrates in their efforts to defeat hooliganism, especially outside grounds and on railway trains?

Mr. Howell

I am grateful for what the hon. Gentleman has said. In fact, we have had about 10 weeks now in which the position has improved considerably inside grounds—apart from one or two sporadic outbursts. To a large extent the problem has been transferred to outside the grounds. We are determined to get on top of that, although in the main it is the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary.

Mr. Blaker

Is the Minister aware that I have a particular concern in this matter because of recent events in my constituency, including one particularly tragic event? Does he not agree that one of the best means of preventing hooliganism would be to enable magistrates to impose sentences which prevented the hooligans concerned from attending—for the rest of the season or an appropriate period—any further matches in which their favoured club was playing? I understand that that can be done in respect of those under the age of 17. Are the Government considering whether powers should be given to magistrates to enable that to be done generally?

Mr. Howell

Everyone to whom I spoke on my tour of the country advised me that there was no difficulty about the adequacy of the powers. They did not ask for stiffer powers. I asked for the courts to implement the powers that they have. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the punishment would well fit the crime if people who commit a nuisance on Saturday afternoons were prevented from doing so, as the hon. Gentleman suggested.

Mr. James Johnson

This year Hull City Football Club has twice played Manchester United, in my constituency, with conspicuous success on the field, and there has been marked efficiency, on the pavements, by the police, much of which is due to the use of dogs. We in Hull believe that bullies and thugs fear police dogs. Will my hon. Friend bear this in mind in any discussions that he has with the Home Office?

Mr. Howell

If my hon. Friend's football team has played Manchester United twice this year, it must be financially well off by now. On the subject of police dogs, although we have discussed this matter, it is not a matter for me. There is some evidence that it is difficult to control spectators with dogs actually near them, because dogs cannot pick out offenders.

Mr. Dalyell

Even if Manchester United or Hull City are well off, what is happening about finance for the clubs to implement the recommendations on crowd safety?

Mr. Howell

That matter is being discussed within the Government at present. As the Bill proceeds from another place towards this place, I hope that we shall be able to make a statement in due course.