HC Deb 03 December 1974 vol 882 cc1325-7
1. Mr. Ashley

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what criteria he uses in deciding to intervene personally in industrial disputes.

2. Mr. Rifkind

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what is his policy in regard to the rôle that should be played by his Department, as distinct from the CAS, in the settling of industrial disputes.

The Minister of State, Department of Employment (Mr. Albert Booth)

The Conciliation and Arbitration Service, which was established with the full support and co-operation of the CBI and TUC, now has the responsibility of providing assistance by way of conciliation or by other means to help avoid and resolve industrial disputes.

Mr. Ashley

My Question was really about the personal intervention of the Minister or the Secretary of State. However, is my hon. Friend aware that the value of the interventions by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is far too great to be dissipated by intervening in every piffling dispute, as recommended by Conservatives who do not understand industrial relations? Will my hon. Friend nevertheless consider intervening at a very early stage in all wage applications which go beyond the social contract?

Mr. Booth

I recognise that some circumstances could arise in which the intervention of my right hon. Friend might be required, or might be appropriate, but I believe that since the establishment of the CAS, this service is capable of dealing with all normal conciliation and arbitration functions. I would expect, therefore, that the circumstances in which my right hon. Friend would have to intervene would be very rare indeed.

Mr. Rifkind

Will the Minister seek to reconcile the spirited call to the Bakers' Union to settle under the guidelines of the social contract, made only yesterday by the Secretary of State for Employment, with the deafening silence of the Government on the much more serious road haulage dispute in Scotland and on the miners' ballot on the productivity proposals? Do the Government not appreciate that the authority of a Government can be of importance in explaining the social contract which they profess to support, and of much more importance than simply making speeches on this subject to the Labour Party conference and the TUC?

Mr. Booth

My right hon. Friend has certainly not confined himself to making speeches to the Labour Party conference on the issue of the social contract and has, on more than one occasion, expressed a view on a pay settlement. However, it is not appropriate that he or any other Minister should seek to judge on every settlement that is made. While a dispute is running there are times when it could be positively harmful for Ministers to intervene, when the CAS is seeking an end to the dispute.

Mr. Canavan

Will my hon. Friend give more details of the rô1e that his Department or the CAS has taken with regard to the Scottish bus drivers' strike, or what rôle either intends to take?

Mr. Booth

The CAS seeks to meet both sides in this dispute, as in other disputes. Where the dispute is unofficial, as in the case to which my hon. Friend refers, it meets the official union to seek its views on what rôle can be played in bringing about a settlement.

Mr. Brittan

What guidance does the Secretary of State give to the CAS when a dispute is referred to it? What procedure exists to ensure that he is kept in touch with the progress of the efforts of the CAS during a dispute? Above all, what steps would he take if it appeared that the intervention of the CAS was leading to a resolution of the dispute which conflicted with the terms of the social contract?

Mr. Booth

The first part of the hon. Gentleman's question is the subject of another Question on the Order Paper. In the case of a dispute in which the CAS is involved, there is the normal report obtained for officials in the Department. That is made available to my right hon. Friend. If a dispute is likely to be resolved in a way which would bring about a breach of the social contract, that is always regarded as a matter between the two negotiating parties and not one for which any CAS conciliation officer is responsible.