HC Deb 01 April 1974 vol 871 cc875-9
Mr. Adley

(By Private Notice) asked the Secretary of State for Industry whether he will make a statement on the Concorde aircraft project following his meeting with the French Minister of Transport on Friday.

The Secretary of State for Industry and Minister of Posts and Telecommunications (Mr. Anthony Wedgwood Benn)

I met my French colleague on Friday, 29th March, in Paris within the framework of consultations on the project. We had a wide-ranging and friendly discussion of the options, and agreed to meet again soon. The Government will be taking these discussions into account before any decisions are reached.

Mr. Palmer

Will my right hon. Friend given an assurance that the report in yesterday's Observer—a newspaper which is a notorious enemy of the Concorde project—to the effect that the British were to cancel the project within a matter of months has no foundation in fact?

Mr. Benn

I am grateful for that question. I saw that newspaper report and I thought it right to make known to my colleagues in France that the British Government were entering into and maintaining discussions with them in good faith and that no decisions had been reached.

Mr. Adley

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that there has been no change in the legal obligations between ourselves and the French Government since the previous Labour Government sought to cancel the project and failed to do so in 1969? Would he also give a clear assurance that he personally stands four square behind the project, and will he take this opportunity to repudiate the remarks of his right hon. Friend the Leader of the House who called Concorde a skeleton in the previous Government's cupboard, which is a direct insult to the thousands of British and French workers on the project?

Mr. Benn

My consultation with the French Minister was in good faith. I made that clear in answer to a previous question.

We have received from the previous Government a legacy of concealment, which has been condemned repeatedly by the Public Accounts Committee. Many of the difficult problems which we now face could have been handled much more effectively had there not been that concealment. The hon. Gentleman knows full well that during discussion on the Concorde production Bill, in which I spoke for the Opposition, the Opposition gave support to the Bill but at that time called for publication of more information.

Mr. Biffen

Now that it is openly acknowledged that Concorde can fly only by means of a substantial operating subsidy, did the right hon. Gentleman discuss with M. Achille Fould what would be the political repercussions of that in obtaining landing rights in countries whose own air lines provide a first-class service which might be adversely affected by subsidised Concorde operations?

Mr. Benn

We did not discuss it in the political context which the hon. Gentleman suggests. We looked at the figures, which are common to both countries, and which have been made available to us by officials, we recognised that serious problems were posed, and we agreed to look at the options and to meet again soon. That was the basis of our discussions.

Mr. Moonman

I appreciate that my right hon. Friend is in a dilemma in present circumstances, but would it not be helpful if he could this afternoon spell out a timetable for discussions and the time when a decision might ultimately be made?

Mr. Benn

I recognise the desire for speedy resolution of these matters, and French Ministers fully agree about that. For that reason we have arranged that the next meeting should take place in London as soon as officials have done the work which we set them on examining the options open to us. It is our desire that uncertainty should be removed.

Mr. Faulds

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind, if Britain wishes to keep in the forefront of work in advanced technologies, the damage that could be done in this regard if there were a cancellation of Concorde?

Mr. Benn

That point is already known to me, for every sort of reason, and was put forward not only by my French colleagues but also by people who have been making representations here. I wish to reassure everyone that the Government are anxious to listen to the representations before reaching a view on the matter.

Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how we would be able to get out of the Anglo-French Treaty, since there is no escape clause? Should we have to renegotiate the Treaty? Have we some idea of what compensation would be required, or are we committed to the aircraft if the French refuse to follow what the right hon. Gentleman seems to want—to cancel the project?

Mr. Benn

That question did not arise in the discussions. We are working with the French on the Concorde project. Given the situation which I have made known to the House, it seemed right to sit down and discuss with the French how the problem should be handled. That was the basis of my discussions with my French colleagues.

Mr. Edwin Wainwright

Does my right hon. Friend realise that there would be a tinge of sadness throughout the House and the country if we rapidly arrived at a decision to cancel the Concorde project? On the other hand, does he not appreciate that it is not much use continually to produce something which will be a terrific loss to the nation? Will my right hon. Friend comment on statements by experts that sufficient know-how has been obtained from the Concorde project and that it is not worth spending much more money on it?

Mr. Benn

My hon. Friend has identified some of the issues which the Government have to consider before reaching a view. The whole House is well aware of the difficulty attached to this decision and is, I am sure, pleased to think that there is time to reflect on this and other considerations.

Mr. Chataway

The right hon. Gentleman has protested today that the Government have not decided to cancel Concorde and that he is looking for means to continue the project. However, does he not realise that his earlier actions were totally inconsistent with that objective? Does he not agree that by rushing out figures which were damaging to Concorde, without making any attempt to check the basis of his calculations with the manufacturers, and by encouraging British Airways to produce even more damaging figures about operating costs, without any attempt to check the basis of the calculations, he was dealing the project an instant, deadly blow?

Mr. Benn

I do not accept that argument at all. The position was not changed by publication of the figures. The position was known to right hon. Gentlemen sitting on the Opposition Front Bench. If they believed that a project of this magnitude could survive only by concealment, that throws much light on their attitude of responsibility in this matter.

Mr. Chataway

Before publishing figures we would at least have attempted to have discussions with the manufacturers and with British Airways. How does the right hon. Gentleman justify publishing figures without attempting to check their accuracy?

Mr. Benn

The right hon. Gentleman knows very well that the Government and Ministers are in continual contact with the manufacturers. I am not prepared to accept from him that there was any intent by the Opposition to publish the figures. Indeed, that position relates to the nature of the problem we inherited—a problem of concealment. This means that in reaching the difficult decision there are now elements of shock which would not have been present if the facts had been made available more generally, as the Public Accounts Committee wished.