GUIDE DOGS FOR THE BLIND (Hansard, 30 October 1973)

§ Mr. Nicholas Scott (Paddington, South)
It is characteristic of this place that we should be able to turn from the broad sweep of policies as outlined in the Gracious Speech to a detailed consideration of a problem that affects one citizen or only a handful of citizens.
The problem that I seek to raise tonight is not one that is very widespread. Recently a blind person arrived at a hotel and asked for a meal and, being accompanied by a guide dog, asked permission to take the dog into the dining room of the hotel. Not only did the management welcome her into the dining room; it provided a special meal for the dog and refused adamantly to accept any payment for the meal that was provided.
I suppose that is closer to the general rule of what happens when blind people accompanied by blind dogs attempt to visit hotels, restaurants or other establishments than some of the other matters I shall talk about this evening. But, unfortunately, there are a handful of cases which occur from time to time in which blind people accompanied by guide dogs are refused admission to hotels, restaurants, public houses and churches, or occasions where——

§ Mr. Scott
—or occasions where perhaps, although a person with a guide dog may be granted admission to a hotel, an extra charge is imposed although no extra service of any sort is provided for the person with the guide dog. I am sure that the balance is on the good side of the equation, but to the handful of people who have a bad experience it is humiliating and hurtful and detracts from their ability to enjoy as normal a life as possible.
As a preliminary, I want to say that of course I accept the general restrictions on dogs in catering establishments and other places which local medical officers of health lay down in byelaws. But we ought to recognise the very special rôle of the guide dog for the blind, and bear in mind all the time that these animals are not fretful puppies liable to cause a disturbance; they are extremely well-behaved and well-trained dogs. Most of them are labradors. My own black labrador, Jet, is a classic example of the breed and I know that this breed, particularly when they have been trained for the use of blind people, is impeccably behaved. I would not dream of mentioning legislation, but it is worth recalling that in East Germany, in several of the United States and in one or two other countries, there are specific statutory exemptions for guide dogs from byelaws and other legislation affecting dogs in public places.
Let us agree that our aim is to see that all handicapped people, whatever their handicap, can enjoy the fullest possible life, and that we should seek to see that the barriers to that enjoyment are progressively removed.
What I want to do tonight is to mention four aspects, four hurdles, that are in the way of this full enjoyment by blind people who are accompanied by guide dogs. The first one, the access of blind people to public buildings, is an area in which difficulty in rarely experienced. But sometimes it happens, usually as a result of a minor official who perhaps does not understand the flexibility that is allowed under the rules, and normally when access is had to higher authority the 154 problem can be quickly resolved. I would not ask tonight for any action on the part of the Government in this area, but I would hope that the fact that we have discussed it, that the problem has been aired, might lead to a greater awareness in public buildings of the need to look particularly favourably on guide dogs.
The second area that I want to mention is transport, and here I want to pay tribute both to British Rail and to what we now have to call British Airways for the facilities which they grant to blind people accompanied by guide dogs.
There are just two small areas of difficulty, and perhaps my hon. Friend will pass them on to the appropriate quarter. The first is where a person with a guide dog wishes to travel in a sleeping car, when the present practice is that it is effectively impossible for him to travel second class. He eithers has to have the whole of the second-class compartment and, in effect, pay two full fares, or to travel first class. I should have thought it would be a small extension of the generally favourable attitude that British Rail extend to such people if they allowed them either to have the whole of a second-class sleeper for the payment of a second-class fare or to travel first class for the payment of a second-class fare. It is just a blot on what is otherwise a fine record of British Rail, with the second exception that, occasionally, people with guide dogs are barred from entering the dining cars on trains. Here again, if British Rail could take the message, bearing in mind the particular qualities of these animals, it would be a small concession to ensure that they were freely granted access to dining cars.
The third area is more difficult, namely, places of entertainment and, in particular, cinemas and theatres. I understand that there are problems for the managements of these establishments, that there are particular problems associated with the fire regulations, or, at least, perhaps managements use the fire regulations as a reason for not facing the real issue of whether or not facilities should be provided in their premises for blind persons with guide dogs. I should like the fire authorities to consider this and see whether, in consultation with the managements, they could recommend certain parts of theatres and cinemas, 155 close to the exists, where convenient arrangements could be made for blind people to sit and enjoy performances and yet create no hazard if by chance fire were to break out.
The final area of difficulty that I want to mention is, I suppose, the most obvious and certainly the one which causes blind people in these circumstances most trouble. I refer to what one would broadly call the catering trade—hotels and restaurants. Of course, we have very proper restrictions on the access of dogs to these establishments, enforced by byelaws normally on the advice of local medical officers of health. The vast majority of proprietors, whether of restaurants or hotels, adopt a very reasonable and liberal attitude to the interpretation of these byelaws when they are confronted with guide dogs, but there are some problem areas. I think this applies particularly to proprietors of the smaller establishments. Perhaps they tend not to have thought through a number of these problems as larger and better-managed establishments have done.
In addition—and this is surprising but it is borne out by the evidence—in the small establishments in remote country areas the difficulties are particularly acute because the blind person frequently has no alternative place in which to eat and drink or obtain accommodation without a considerable further journey. Then there is a problem where the restaurant is owned by people perhaps from overseas where dogs are not kept to the same standard of hygiene as is normal in this country.
I do not think there is anything insurmountable about these problem areas. I believe that if local medical officers of health could make more clearly and widely known and more positively known the flexibility of the public health requirements, and state positively, instead of in a rather negative way, that none of the public health regulations should be seen as a bar to the admission of guide dogs, we would make a considerable leap forward.
Perhaps the only positive action that I am asking tonight from my hon. Friend is that he and the Department of Health and Social Security should be prepared to give more positive guidance to local 156 medical officers of health on these lines. This has been a small matter and to many hon. Members it may seem trivial, but it is not trivial to those who personally come up against the difficulties which I have described.
We must never as a Parliament or as individual hon. Members cease in our search for ways in which we can help to improve the lot of our fellow citizens who are handicapped. I believe that in some small way we might tonight help to alleviate the lot of those who are blind.

§ The Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Security (Mr. Paul Dean)
On behalf of the House, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I congratulate you warmly on your appointment to the Chair. I wish you well in presiding over our proceedings.
I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Paddington, South (Mr. Scott) for raising this important subject on the first Adjournment debate in this new Session of Parliament. I am grateful for the constructive suggestions which he has made to improve current practice.
We are a nation of animal lovers, and dogs are high on the list. It is clear from what my hon. Friend said that he is a dog lover, and so am I. I have three dogs at home called Jinx, Tess and Blacks. They are bitches and there is therefore a certain entourage around the house.
It can be fairly said that few relationships between living beings are more stable, more loyal, or bring out the best in both parties, more than the relationship between man and dog or woman and dog. Perhaps the most vivid form in which this is expressed is the relationship between a guide dog and a blind person.
At present there are over 1,800 guide dog owners in the United Kingdom. I join with my hon. Friend in paying tribute to the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association and other bodies which do such valuable work. My hon. Friend covered a wide area, but he made the valid point that we are concerned not so much with regulations made by Governments or local authorities but with 157 attitudes on the part of those who control the places into which blind people wish to come.
I very much agree with my hon. Friend that we all want to make mobility and entrance as easy as we possibly can for blind people and other people who suffer any form of disability. We need to break down unnecessary barriers where they exist and to create highways for as normal a life as possible for blind people.
First, my hon. Friend mentioned food shops and restaurants. He mentioned them as perhaps one of the most difficult areas. Food hygiene considerations point to dogs not being allowed into food shops or other food premises, but my Department has never considered that a statutory ban was necessary. Moreover, my Department has always recognised that a proper exception to the general rule should be made for guide dogs for the blind. That has been made clear in our guidance to local authorities.
It is true that the Food Hygiene (General) Regulations 1970 oblige food traders to: take all such steps as may be reasonably necessary to protect the food from risk of contamination". and in particular: not to place food so as to involve any risk of contamination". We have encouraged or advised local authorities to encourage food traders to display a notice requesting customers not to bring dogs into the premises, but I should not expect food traders to interpret that as meaning that it would be wrong to allow a guide dog to accompany his blind master into the premises. That is clearly a circumstance where one would expect common sense to come into play.
I know that a number of large well-known stores allow guide dogs to accompany their owners round the store, notwithstanding their general ban on dogs in food departments. I hope that others will follow this excellent example. I would only add that it is probably advisable for the blind shopper to avoid very busy periods.
There have, from time to time, been complaints that blind persons with guide dogs have been refused entry to food shops or restaurants on the grounds of food hygiene requirements. As far as 158 I am aware these cases have been few. My hon. Friend underlined the fact that we are dealing with the exceptional cases rather than the general rule. These cases stem essentially from ignorance and reflect the failure of individuals to understand the rôle and training of guide dogs. It is important to appreciate that the making of regulations and the consequent formal exemption of guide dogs would not itself necessarily prevent the occurrence of such cases.
I am advised that in the past an approach to the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association has often helped to resolve individual difficulties and my Department is always ready to help by inquiring into any such instances. I must emphasise, however, that the right to refuse admission rests ultimately with the owner or manager of the premises concerned. This is really a matter for common sense and humanity rather than Government intervention.
As for places of entertainment, I have consulted my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department and the Greater London Council. I am advised that while there is usually no prohibition on the admission of guide dogs arising from the code of management, managers of premises may regard the rules governing the means of escape as indicating that it would be unwise to admit dogs. These rules require that escape routes shall be kept clear and at all times and it is possible that difficulties arise because of this.
The management might well take the view that a dog could itself cause obstruction in an emergency such as the outbreak of fire and, as it could not itself select the emergency exit but only obey the commands of the blind person, it might cause danger to others and conceivably engender panic. Certainly if the dog were to become separated from its owner in these circumstances it could well be caused considerable distress.
I emphasise that in the last resort it is the manager who takes the decision and there are no powers for any licensing authority specifically to direct managers on this point. Nevertheless, I appreciate the point my hon. Friend has made and would expect that managers will act with sympathy and understanding.
159 One must accept, however, that there may be particular entertainments where, because of their nature, for example musical concerts, or because of the length of the performance, the management may have legitimate doubts about the wisdom of admitting a guide dog. A telephone inquiry beforehand may well enable the blind person to reassure the management or enable it to make some simple arrangement which would forestall a refusal of admission because of uncertainty. For example, I understand that some theatre managements are prepared to have guide dogs looked after in the foyer of the theatre during the performance.
Should blind people with guide dogs encounter difficulty I hope they would take up the case with the management of the organisation concerned, either individually or through the agency of local organisations and consumer groups that represent their interests. I am told that this sort of approach has been successful in having guide dogs recognised as exceptions to the "no dogs" rule recently put into force in a new shopping centre in a large Midlands town.
As regards hotels, which my hon. Friend specifically mentioned, I appreciate again that in some cases managers may be reluctant to allow access to blind people with guide dogs. Here again, I can only suggest that any problems are best taken up directly with those responsible.
My hon. Friend mentioned public transport, and I am glad that he paid tribute to British Rail and to British Airways for the way in which they tried to accommodate blind people and their dogs.
I am advised that blind people with guide dogs are able to travel on trains without hindrance, as one would expect, and that their guide dogs are conveyed without charge. In crowded commuter trains there may be difficulties, but here again I would expect that the travelling public, however crowded they might be, would extend to blind people the compassion and understanding which is generally accorded to them. It is not customary to allow dogs of any kind into restaurant cars. This is a particular point which my hon. Friend mentioned. 160 No doubt one of the factors here is the limited facilities available.
But if this or any other aspect is causing difficulties of which I am unaware, I suggest that they are probably better taken up direct with British Rail management. My hon. Friend mentioned sleeping-car facilities saying that, in effect a person with a guide dog had to travel first class. That was an extremely interesting comment. My hon. Friend may also like to take up that matter direct with British Rail.
I am advised that guide dogs are normally permitted to travel either in the passenger cabin or cargo hold of aircraft and are usually carried free of charge. It would, of course, be necessary to obtain any permits that might be needed for travel to or via other countries, and in particular circumstances there may be operational reasons why it may not be possible to accommodate animals on a particular flight. Apart from that, however, I am not aware of any difficulties in travelling by air, but if my hon. Friend has any particular points in mind perhaps he will take them up direct with British Airways or my right hon. Friend, the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry.
I am sure that the House will agree that this is an area where it is better to rely on people's good sense and compassion rather than regulations by central Government or by local government. I do not believe that it would be practical to have effective regulations attempting to cover the whole area. There would continue to be individual cases of ignorance or misunderstanding of the regulations, if regulations there were.
In practice, I doubt that legislation would be any guarantee that the comparatively small group of blind people of whom we are talking, would not still encounter the occasional difficulty. Such cases would have to be resolved individually after the event, as they are at present.
Fortunately, in the vast majority of cases, people are helpful and sympathetic to blind people as blindness evokes an automatic human response. Such evidence as I have been able to collect suggests that the cases that my hon. Friend 161 has in mind are comparatively rare. I accept, however, that matters of this kind can be helped by public enlightenment, and I hope that the fact that my hon. Friend has raised the matter tonight and the specific suggestions he has made will 162 have made a big contribution towards dealing with the difficulties that still exist.