HC Deb 24 October 1973 vol 861 cc1250-2
27. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the sale of Harrier aircraft to Spain.

Mr. Anthony Royle

The Spanish Government have placed an order with the United States Government for eight Harrier aircraft to the United States Marine Corps AV8A specification. Her Majesty's Government have agreed to the provision of the necessary aircraft under an extension of the existing intergovernmental arrangement for the supply of AV8A Harriers to the United States Marine Corps.

Mr. Allaun

Will the Government warn General Franco that he may never get the Harriers? Will he be told that the Labour Party Executive has decided that, as it would aid a repressive régime, the next Labour Government would discontinue this contract if the supply had not been completed? It will not be completed because it does not start for two years—and it also involves spares.

Mr. Royle

I have no doubt that this contract will be completed. We seek to maintain correct and businesslike relations with many countries whose policies may arouse criticism in this country. I am sure the hon. Gentleman realises that we should export very little if we were to boycott all countries whose internal policies were different from our own.

Mr. Selwyn Gummer

Will my hon. Friend explain in what particular this deal differs from the arrangements with Yugoslavia entered into by the last Labour Government for the equipping of its air force?

Mr. Royle

I think we all know that when Labour Ministers were in office they established the post of defence salesman, and he did a very good job.

Mr. Richard

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that one of the things that we on this side of the House object to so much about this deal is that the Government did not have the courage and guts to come to the House of Commons and tell us about it openly? It was done through the back door via the United States of America. If, as the Government have told us repeatedly in the last few weeks, it is possible to insert into contracts for the sale of arms provisions that they shall not be used in certain countries in the Middle East, why is it not possible also to insert in the contract for the sale of Harriers to the United States of America that they should not be resold to a Fascist Government like that of Spain?

Mr. Royle

On the first point, the answer is that I could not tell Parliament because the House was not sitting when the deal was completed. The hon. and learned Gentleman, quite rightly, is interested in the mechanics of the arrangement. We were not approached by the Spanish Government over this deal at all. We were, however, fully consulted by the United States Government. We agreed to a sale, through the United States, be- cause the Spaniards wanted it that way. It is for them to say why they prefer to buy Harriers from the United States rather than direct from us.

Sir F. Bennett

While regretting an increase of Spanish military strength, in the context of Gibraltar, may I ask whether the Minister can clarify in the minds of some of us the thoughts of those on the benches opposite who, having only a few days ago urged that the sanctity of arms contracts once made had to be observed, have now given an open warning that they propose deliberately to disregard the sanctity of contract in future?

Mr. Royle

I do not think there is any need for me to add anything to what my hon. Friend has said.

Mr. Callaghan

Did it occur to the Minister that perhaps the Spaniards did not want to approach us direct for this sale because any Government with their eyes open might have asked that these planes should not be used against Gibraltar? In view of the increasing pressure on Gibraltar that is being sustained by the Franco Government, may I ask whether the Government have had any conversations with the United States about the resale of these planes or direct with the Spanish Government about their use?

Mr. Royle

I think the right hon. Gentleman will appreciate that it is relevant that the Spaniards wanted the aircraft to United States Marine Corps specifications. The Spaniards have had a close defence relationship with the Americans for a long time and it is natural that they should want to look to them for help.

So far as Gibraltar is concerned—the right hon. Gentleman made an important point—I would underline that our willingness to permit this sale could not be taken in any way to indicate any weakening of our resolve to stand by the people of Gibraltar in the face of Spanish restrictions. These are two completely different issues.

Mr. Hugh Jenkins

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. My hon. Friend the Member for Salford, East (Mr. Frank Allaun), like others of us, did not vote for the sanctity of the arms contract the other day.