HC Deb 24 October 1973 vol 861 cc1243-6
17. Mr. Judd

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he will make a statement on the position being adopted by the British representative to the United Nations on Rhodesia.

The Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Lord Balniel)

The British representative is expected to speak during the current debate on Southern Rhodesia in the Fourth Committee of the General Assembly. He will outline Her Majesty's Government's policy, which is well known.

Mr. Judd

Will the Minister confirm that the Government have no intention of passing responsibility for the situation in Rhodesia to the United Nations and that they see this as remaining essentially a British responsibility? In following the recent Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference, where a collective view was expressed by Commonwealth leaders on the need to work for the liberation of the majority of people in Southern Africa, will our representative at the United Nations get together with Commonwealth representatives to work out ways in which sanctions can be made more effective against Rhodesia?

Lord Balniel

I confirm the first part of the hon. Gentleman's comment. On the political side, we believe that what is necessary is that the parties concerned at this stage should get together and make an agreement themselves without outside interference. On the latter part of the hon. Gentleman's question, there is constant consultation at the United Nations and between the Commonwealth countries on this kind of subject.

Mr. Soref

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that, in the light of the aggression in the Middle East and the increasing and continued racial persecution in Uganda and other black African countries, persecution against Rhodesia should cease?

Lord Balniel

I think that our problems in Rhodesia are big enough in securing the British Government's policy objectives without introducing extraneous affairs which would complicate the matter still further.

19. Mr. Marten

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what representations have been made by Her Majesty's Government to the United Nations sanctions commission concerning breaches of mandatory sanctions against Rhodesia emanating from EEC countries; and if he will make a statement.

Lord Balniel

Her Majesty's Government have named members of the Community—among other countries—in Notes to the United Nations sanctions committee. Details must remain confidential until they are published by the committee. Copies of the committee's reports are in the Library of the House.

Mr. Marten

If the Government have laid this information before the United Nations, what have they done also at the Council of Ministers, where we were told that, by entry into the Common Market, we should greatly increase our influence in these matters? Will my right hon. Friend agree that our influence is decreasing and that our voice is becoming muted on such matters as the French nuclear explosions, international sugar deals, and so on? Can he explain why we are not taking more action against our partners in the Council of Ministers on this important matter?

Mr. Speaker

Order. The Question relates to Rhodesia, does it not?

Mr. Marten

Yes, Sir.

Lord Balniel

Yes, the Question relates to sanctions, and we believe that this matter is primarily the responsibility of individual Governments and the United Nations sanctions supervisory committee. EEC member countries are well aware of our views on this subject.

Mr. Callaghan

Is it not one of the objects of the EEC to try to co-ordinate foreign policy as far as possible? If that be so, may I make a direct request to the Minister to ask the Foreign Secretary to place upon the agenda of the next meeting of Foreign Ministers of the EEC a discussion on the observance of sanctions as laid down by the United Nations, since it is openly asserted that, among other countries, Holland, West Germany, France and Italy have all been engaged in trade with Rhodesia?

Lord Balniel

I shall certainly call the right hon. Gentleman's views to the attention of my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary. If it appears that there is anything to be gained by discussing Rhodesia in that forum, we shall seek to do so. But it is highly debatable whether this will advance the cause which we both have at heart.

Mr. Bruce-Gardyne

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Mr. Marten) was highly misleading and that it is quite wrong to suggest that members of the European Community are the only countries that do not observe sanctions?

Mr. Marten

I did not suggest that.

Mr. Bruce-Gardyne

There is no country in the whole wide world apart from us that takes a blind bit of notice of sanctions.

Lord Balniel

It is true that many countries fail to observe the sanctions. It is for that reason that we make information available to the United Nations sanctions supervisory committee. It is for the individual Governments concerned and the committee to consider what action to take.

Mr. Maclennan

Are we not on sufficiently good terms with our new partners in the EEC to raise a matter which is of great importance to us and to the international community in which they themselves can be considerably helpful? As one who has visited Rhodesia within the last six months and seen breaches of sanctions by members of the EEC, I find the Minister's attitude incomprehensible.

Lord Balniel

We are on very good terms with the members of the EEC. There have recently been indications that our EEC partners are trying to improve their sanctions control.

Mr. Marten

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I shall seek an opportunity to raise the matter on the Adjournment.