HC Deb 22 October 1973 vol 861 cc906-7

Lords Amendment: No. 59, in page 123, line 34, at end insert: (5) In this section "local authority" includes a Passenger Transport Executive.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.

The title of the Bill expressly defines one of its purposes as the amendment of Part II of the Transport Act 1968 and it is therefore not inappropriate that this clause, which gives the Secretary of State power to remove or relax controls affecting certain local authority functions by affirmative resolution order, should also cover controls affecting passenger transport executives. This amendment therefore includes passenger transport executives in the definition of local authority for the purposes of this clause.

Mr. Hugh D. Brown

The Minister has read his brief very carefully, but may I ask what it means? This seems to be putting a passenger transport executive on a par with a local authority in the relaxation of the amount of fees which may be charged. What kind of fees are we talking about? What is the responsibility of the passenger transport executive?

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

This is quite simply to give a greater freedom. The practical consequences may not be very great because most of the controls over passenger transport executives are being withdrawn now. However, it seems reasonable to make provision for the possibility. This is also in keeping with the Government's declared view that the regional authority now assuming the responsibilities formerly exercised by a passenger transport authority should be as free as possible to conduct its own affairs. To some extent the hon. Gentleman is right. There will not be great practical consequences from this. But it is made absolutely clear that if points arise where greater freedom should be exercised, that should be enjoyed by the passenger transport executives in the same way as the regional authority.

Mr. Brown

The Minister is appealing to my philosophical prejudice by saying that someone will have greater freedom, but I do not know what we are talking about. What are the relaxations? What practical examples can the Minister give relating to the Passenger Transport Executive?

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

As I said a moment ago, the practical effect is not terribly great. Perhaps I could look further into some of the practical points and write to the hon. Gentleman letting him know what could take place.

Mr. Hugh D. Brown

rose—

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. I hope that the House is not seeking to resolve itself into a Committee. Is the hon. Gentleman going to put a question?

Mr. Brown

Yes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

I think that the Minister had sat down.

Mr. Brown

Before the Minister sits down. I am not trying to be flippant. There is great public interest in the doings of the Passenger Transport Executive. It might have asked for this, or it might be that this is required because of the legacy of taking over from the Glasgow Corporation Transport Department. There is no urgency about it, but there is general interest in the doings of the Passenger Transport Executive.

Question put and agreed to.

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