HC Deb 17 October 1973 vol 861 cc189-93
14. Mr. Thomas Cox

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he last met the Chairman of the Greater London Council Housing Committee.

Mr. Channon

I met the chairman of the council's housing development committee on 13 th June 1973 and the chairman of the housing management committee on 19th July.

Mr. Cox

Following those meetings, is the hon. Gentleman fully aware that the housing position in London is worsening month by month? What action does the hon. Gentleman intend to take to try to get some of the building land in outer London made available to meet the housing problems of inner London? When will we receive the report of the much-talked-of action committee about which the hon. Gentleman has spoken so often in the House? When will the hon. Gentleman force action to be taken with regard to the empty properties in London which are a national disgrace in view of the housing shortage?

Mr. Channon

On the question of empty property, I have made it clear time and again—and I think that the hon. Gentleman has heard me say so—that where people are keeping property empty scandalously, for no good reason, my right hon. and learned Friend is prepared to consider issuing a compulsory purchase order.

Mr. Cox

There is the time factor.

Mr. Channon

There is no other way, short of expropriation, and the hon. Gentleman knows that as well as I do. I am aware of the serious situation in London and since 1970 I have been urging local authorities in both inner and outer London to concentrate as much as possible on building houses of all kinds. There is a shortage of both local authority and private housing in London. The hon. Gentleman must have been missing something, because the report of the action committee has been out for some time.

Mr. Kilfedder

In 1965 the Milner Holland Report designated certain areas in London, including Islington, as areas of acute housing stress. In view of the investigation carried out by The Times, published on 26th September, into the practice of property speculators, including Laganvale Estate, which I believe is registered in Belfast, of winkling out sitting tenants, will my hon. Friend set up an inquiry into the actions of such companies, which are causing great distress?

Mr. Channon

I should prefer not to comment on individual cases. We announced in a White Paper earlier this year that we intend at an early date to bring forward legislation to deal with the problem of housing action areas.

Mr. Crosland

In an earlier reply the Under-Secretary tried to give the impression that it was entirely within the power of local authorities to decide how much council house building took place. Now that the matter of London has been raised, will he correct that impression and tell the House what he knows to be the case, namely, that a great many local authorities throughout the country long to build more than they are building now but are prevented by factors which are totally outside their control, such as shortage of land, the cost yardstick, and the level of interest rates? In other words, will the Minister now accept that the volume of council house building in this country, which is grossly inadequate at present, is within the power of the Government to correct and not within the power of individual local authorities?

Mr. Channon

Primarily it is for each local authority to go ahead with its own housing programme. Local authorities have primary responsibility. When the positions were reversed in the House and hon. Members of the Labour Party were in power, they used to blame the "wicked Tory councils", as they called them, when the housing programme was falling behind. Now the boot is on the other foot. [Interruption.] Hon. Members are always trying to have it both ways. The Government have taken measures to try to stop some of the overheating in the construction industry, from which housing is exempt, and this may well have some effect in helping with local authority housing.

Mr. Crosland

But surely the difference between the two periods is that in the previous period Tory councils were deliberately cutting down on the programmes which had been set by their Labour predecessors. Is not the present situation absolutely the reverse, when many Labour councils, having inherited a reducing council house building programme, wish to increase the building programme but are prevented by factors wholly outside their control?

Mr. Channon

The real difference in the situation is that members of the Labour Party are now in Opposition and wish to blame us.

15. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what representations he has received since 25th July over further increases in rents imposed under the Housing Finance Act.

Mr. Channon

One hundred and seventy-nine local authorities and eight development corporations sought directions to make lower average increases than 50p a week in October. Representations have also been made by some Members of Parliament, a few other authorities, tenants' associations and individual tenants.

Mr. Allaun

Is the Minister aware that 180 local authorities, representing millions of families, consider that they have been tricked? Does the Minister admit that those authorities, having been told by the Secretary of State last October that they were justified in raising their rents by less than £1 a week, are now being compelled to raise those rents by a further 50p, quite unnecessarily?

Mr. Channon

No, Sir. I cannot accept that. This may arise from a genuine misunderstanding. The hon. Member knows as much about this as anyone because he has lived through this long period. In Section 62 of the Housing Finance Act, the hon. Member will see that the discretion given to the Secretary of State to give a direction this year is very limited. He has to be satisfied that 2 per cent. or more of the authority's qualifying dwellings would be substantially above the fair rents for those dwellings if a 50p increase were given. Last year there was no flexibility whatsoever.

Those authorities which increased their rents in October had to have £1 across the board. Accordingly, there is a much more flexible situation—[Interruption.] I am not denying that it is an Act of the present Government. I am merely saying that there is a difference in the two situations. I hope that there will be no misunderstanding that the situations are different.

Mr. Rost

Will my hon. Friend remind hon. Members of the Opposition of the number of tenants who have had their rents reduced through rebates?

Mr. Channon

There are many families—[HON. MEMBERS: "HOW many?"] If hon. Members want exact figures I advise them to table a Question; but they may not like the answer. There are many families who, with the increase in the needs allowance and in spite of rent increases, will be paying less than they paid previously. What hon. Members forget is that council rents rose, on average, by 70 per cent, during the previous Labour Government and 40 per cent. of local authorities gave no rebates.

Mr. McBride

Will the Government seek to discontinue the hidden increase in rents represented by the lodger charge imposed on many council house tenants despite the fact that in many cases the lodger has long since removed his residence alsewhere? Is it legal to charge for something which is no longer chargeable for?

Mr. Channon

Put like that. no, but I do not think that that is exactly the position. The hon. Member will recall the long hours which he and I spent in the debates on this issue. There should be no misunderstanding about this. It was explained clearly. I will write to the hon. Member, if he does not mind an English Minister replying to his point.