HC Deb 16 October 1973 vol 861 cc8-9
10. Mr. Kaufman

asked the Minister of State for Defence on how many occasions since June 1970 Ministers in his Department have taken part in meetings concerning matters within their departmental responsibilities with persons who are suspects in robbery cases.

Mr. Ian Gilmour

I am aware of only one such occasion.

Mr. Kaufman

Am I right in believing that the case to which the right hon. Gentleman draws attention is that in which the then Under-Secretary of State for Defence for the Army met Mr. Kenneth Littlejohn at a time when there was a Police Gazette "wanted" notice out for Littlejohn in connection with the Smethwick robbery? If the Secretary of State knew about that and yet sanctioned the meeting, ought he not to resign? If he did not know about it, should he not be sacked?

Mr. Gilmour

I have not drawn attention to the case—the hon. Gentleman has—but it is not a sensible question because when my hon. Friend the then Under-Secretary of State went to see Littlejohn, for reasons which the hon. Member well knows—concern to reduce casualties in Northern Ireland, which I am sure every hon. Member would want to do—the identity of Mr. Littlejohn was not known and nobody could conceivably have known that he was wanted by the police.

Mr. Lipton

Will the right hon. Gentleman explain why in this case his Ministry did not consult the Special Branch through the Home Office or M16 through the Foreign Office before entering into these dubious negotiations?

Mr. Gilmour

There was nothing dubious about them. There was nothing about which to consult the Metropolitan Police. All we knew was that a man said that he had information about the IRA; he gave a false name and we did not know who he was. It would have been irresponsible and careless of British Army and civilian Irish lives not to take advantage of that opportunity.

Mr. Kilfedder

I think my right hon. Friend has agreed that it is important to get all possible information about the terrorists operating from the Free State. Does he not agree that it seems strange to extradite to Dublin a man who apparently had offered to give information about the IRA? It seems to be abandoning people who try to make a contribution to safeguarding lives in Northern Ireland.

Mr. Gilmour

I do not accept the premise on which my hon. Friend's question is based. At no stage was it suggested that any immunity from prosecution would be granted to this man. Questions of extradition are not matters for me.