CBI AND TUC (TALKS) (Hansard, 16 October 1973)

§ Q3. Mr. Skinner
asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his latest talks with the CBI and TUC.

§ The Prime Minister
During the recess I held three meetings with the CBI and four meetings with the TUC in preparation for the Government's proposals for stage 3 of the counter-inflation programme, which were published on 8th October. We have now invited the views of the CBI and the TUC, and of other interested bodies, on these proposals. I am meeting the CBI this afternoon and the TUC next Monday.

§ Mr. Skinner
When the Prime Minister next meets the TUC, will he confirm or deny the report in today's Daily Telegraph which suggests that he is to put a curb on the Price Commission in regard to notification of price increases caused by his Government? Will he also tell the TUC why, in these "phoney" package deals, Sir John Stratton, the chairman of one of the biggest meat marketing groups in this country, should have a pay increase of £300 a week and 25 more during the so-called freeze and phases 1 and 2? Does not the right hon. Gentleman accept that these packages are simply a bumper bundle for the bosses and a penny rattle for the workers?

§ The Prime Minister
I do not accept the hon. Gentleman's last statement. Concerning the case which I have seen reported in the Guardian today, I obviously have no specific knowledge of this, but I am having the details obtained. Concerning the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question, I am prepared to discuss any of these matters with the TUC. The point to which the hon. Gentleman referred is one which has been raised by the Price Commission itself in its report. It is, therefore, a point to which the Government must give consideration and on which the Government will in due course make a statement.

§ Sir Gilbert Longden
Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind throughout these conversations that the CBI does not by any means represent all employers in this country and that the TUC does not by any means represent all the employees?

§ The Prime Minister
Yes, that fact is absolutely true. Our consultations are not limited to those two bodies. We have had discussions in the preliminary stage with the retailers and with others, and all organisations have been asked to send their views on the consultative document if they so wish. Concerning those who are not members of any organisation, it remains the responsibility of the Government and of Parliament to look after their welfare.

§ Mr. Grimond
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a very serious situation is arising in those areas of Scotland which are affected by oil, where the local authorities and established industries cannot raise their wages sufficiently and are therefore losing their labour to new jobs at much higher rates? At his next meeting with the CBI and the TUC, will the right hon. Gentleman discuss how exceptions can be made in those areas, similar to those which I understand have been agreed for London?

§ The Prime Minister
Exceptions have not been agreed for London. What is provided for in the code, which we shall 26 be discussing tomorrow, is arrangements about the London allowance which respond to the difference in the cost of living in the metropolis as compared with the cost of living in other parts of the country. The right hon. Gentleman put his finger on the danger point. In any situation where industries are paying higher wages than some of the older industries, people may move to better wage rates. But surely one does not solve the problem by counter-bidding for people, in order to move them from one factory to another and then back again. In Scotland there are still, alas, over 80,000 unemployed people, and surely we ought to concentrate our efforts and thought on enabling them to take up the jobs which are available in the East of Scotland and provide the necessary training for them.

§ Mr. Kinsey
My right hon. Friend will be aware that pensioners were not at the meeting with the CBI, but they are grateful to him for protecting them and giving them the £10 bonus. What they are asking, however, is whether it will be tax-free this year?

§ The Prime Minister
The answer to that is "Yes, Sir".

§ Mr. Atkinson
Will the right hon. Gentleman say what is the difference between his statement on phase 3 and an autumn Budget? Secondly, what were the benefits of doing it in the way that he chose to make the announcements? Thirdly, does he not recall that throughout the four meetings he has had with the TUC representatives, they failed to agree on about nine of the ten basic proposals contained in the phase 3 White Paper? Why is the right hon. Gentleman so surprised that the TUC has now rejected the proposals, having failed to agree on four occasions?

§ The Prime Minister
I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman's analysis of the area of agreement. The TUC has asked to see me further to discuss the matter. As I have announced, we are meeting again on Monday and we can then carry the discussions further.
Concerning the announcement, that was made because stage 3 is to come into force a year after the standstill began to operate, and if the proper consultations were to be carried through it had to be 27 announced at that time. Had it not been announced, Parliament could not be debating it tomorrow.