Executive

HC Deb 15 November 1973 vol 864 cc641-4

3. Mr. Douglas

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the progress toward the setting up of the Northern Ireland Executive.

5. Mr. Barnes

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the progress of talks to form an Executive for the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Mr. Whitelaw

My talks with the Alliance Party, the Social Democratic and Labour Party and the Ulster Unionist Party continue to make useful progress, and I will make a statement as soon as I can.

Mr. Douglas

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for those remarks. Does he concur that the attitude of those in Northern Ireland who are trying to achieve a political settlement of the problems there commends itself to the House, and that the attitude of those who are trying to frustrate a political settlement is condemned by the House in general and by himself in particular?

Mr. Whitelaw

I have said both things in the past. I applaud the statements of those on all sides who are seeking to reach an agreement on a constitutional basis under the law of the land, that law being passed by this Parliament with the agreement of all parties in it. I applaud the statesmanship of those who seek to reach a settlement on that basis. I can only deplore those who by unconstitutional means are seeking to bully the Government and Parliament. Those who seek by constitutional means to oppose the Government are perfectly within their rights. I hope that no one will seek to blur the distinction which exists between constitutional and unconstitutional means.

Mr. Stratton Mills

I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend's personal rôle in the talks. That is widely appreciated. I hope that the talks will come to a successful conclusion. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that there will not be a debate on Northern Ireland until the talks reach a conclusion?

Mr. Whitelaw

I have to bear in mind that the House is anxious for a debate, and I understood that my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House gave a indication last week that one will be announced. I think that a debate would be valuable whatever the exact situation of my talks might be.

Mr. Fitt

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that, while considerable progress has been made in the inter-party talks in Northern Ireland, it would be foolish to set a time limit on them because many obstacles still have to be overcome before an Executive can be formed? Does he not also agree that it would be not only foolish but extremely dangerous to set up an Executive which would be in danger of collapsing at the first signs of stress?

Mr. Whitelaw

I agree with the last point put by the hon. Gentleman. On the first point he and I both feel the need for speed where at all possible, and we have to bear that in mind.

Mr. McMaster

Can my right hon. Friend ensure that, in the setting up of an Executive, the proportions of Unionist, SDLP and Alliance members will reflect their strength in the country as shown in the elections for the Assembly and in the earlier plebiscite?

Mr. Whitelaw

These are matters which have to be carefully taken into account during the discussions.

Mr. Merlyn Rees

Following the right hon. Gentleman's answer about the upsurge of violence in Northern Ireland in the last few days, may I ask whether he is aware that he will get full support from the Opposition in dealing with those who, as usual when there is a sign of politics moving in Northern Ireland, are trying to use violence to prevent it from happening?

Mr. Whitelaw

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I hope that those who may have thought that it is possible to bully or coerce the United Kingdom Government and Parliament will realise that that will not happen.

10. Captain Orr

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will place in the Library copies of the papers prepared by him as a basis for discussion between the party leaders in Northern Ireland with a view to the formation of a Northern Ireland Executive.

Mr. Whitelaw

No, Sir. These documents were prepared for confidential talks.

Captain Orr

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, while we understand that when delicate negotiations are going on papers for discussion must remain confidential, there is considerable public anxiety and, indeed, harmful misrepresentation taking place about what is happening in these talks and that the sooner something can be said to allay public anxiety, particularly when things are being done behind the backs of the electorate, the better?

Mr. Whitelaw

Nothing could be further from the truth. Nothing is being done behind the backs of the electorate. I made a very full statement on one set of talks about the constitutitonal position under the Northern Ireland Constitution Act and another full statement about law and order. Both statements were made public for everyone to see.

I assure my hon. and gallant Friend that when the talks are concluded, and if, as I hope, it is possible to put forward proposals for the formation of the Executive, the full basis on which that is done will be set out for this House to consider.

Mr. Fitt

Is the Secretary of State just as confused as I am about the different types of Unionist Party represented in this House? Does he agree that, as the hon. and gallant Member for Down, South (Captain Orr) is a member of the Unionist Party, it would be open to him to go to his leader, Mr. Faulkner, who is involved in the talks, and ask to see these papers?

Mr. Whitelaw

One thing I have learned about Northern Ireland is that it is wise for me not to comment on any parties there, and I do not.

Mr. Stratton Mills

Is it not curious—I exclude my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Down, South (Captain Orr)—that those who have threatened to destroy the Assembly and the Executive are now taking a slightly more constructive interest in these matters?

Mr. Whitelaw

That is so. They said at the start that they had no wish to take any part in the talks, that they had no desire to see an Executive formed and that they would do everything in their power to stop it being formed. They cannot contract in and out. If they have contracted out, they cannot hope to take part in the talks.