§ Notwithstanding anything contained in Sections 51 to 58 of this Act the Federated Superannuation System for Universities shall nevertheless qualify as a recognised occupational scheme for the purposes of this Act for a period of five years after the coming into operation of the Act.—[Mr. Marks.
§ Brought up, and read the First time.
§ Mr. Kenneth Marks (Manchester, Gorton)I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
I moved a similar clause in Committee, and at that time negotiations were taking place between the Department and the university teachers. I learned today from the Under-Secretary that there has been a satisfactory conclusion to those discussions and that the alternative proposals put forward by the teachers have been regarded as acceptable by the Minister.
I make two points. In his letter, the Under-Secretary does not say whether the universities, which are the institutions which will have to make certain decisions on this matter, have been consulted, and whether they have given a reply.
The other question is whether any amendment to the Bill is needed, other than by means of the regulations which will be made.
§ 7.0 p.m.
§ The Under-Secretary of State for Social Services (Mr. Paul Dean)As the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Dell) said, this question was discussed in Committee. I said then that discussions were taking place with the Association of University Teachers to try to find an acceptable way of enabling the FSSU scheme to come within the term for recognition. There has not been any argument that that scheme is anything but a good scheme, but because of its structure it does not fit within the arrangements proposed in the Bill. The main reason for that is that the benefits may be paid wholly in lump sum form and there is no requirement for a personal pension or a widow's pension.
I have seen the association myself and discussions have continued with officials. Following those discussions the AUT suggested that instead of amending the FSSU 282 scheme rules, participating institutions, which are largely individual universities, should give a combined undertaking to ensure that minimum payments are payable to those retiring and those dying in service between 1975 and 1980.
We have been very willing to consider this alternative and have now told the AUT that there is power under the Bill as at present drafted to make regulations enabling the Occupational Pensions Board to accept such a method of achieving recognition. As with all the other schemes, the question whether recognition should be given is for the board.
There can be no question of exempting the FSSU scheme completely from the provisions of the Bill even for a limited period. The proposals put to us by the AUT seem to point to a satisfactory solution, and it is reasonable to hope that a generally acceptable way of achieving recognition has been found. The AUT has indicated that it is satisfied with the outcome of its discussions with Ministers and officials. I understand that the proposals are likely to be acceptable to the universities, but that is of course a matter for them.
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Mr. Marks) for raising this question again and for the cooperation we have had from the other people concerned. I am glad to tell the House that we appear to have reached a solution which I think will be satisfactory for recognition purposes and also to the FSSU scheme which is a good occupational pension scheme.
§ Mr. MarksI am grateful to the Under-Secretary of State for the consideration he has given to this matter and for the action he has taken. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.
§ Motion and clause, by leave, withdrawn.