Housing

HC Deb 02 May 1973 vol 855 cc1228-33

3. Mr. Strang

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement outlining the Government's attitude to the report by the Highlands and Islands Development Board entitled "Housing in the Highlands and Islands".

Mr. Gordon Campbell

The report is still being prepared by the board.

Mr. Strang

Is the Secretary of State aware that the report refers to the serious problems created by second homes in the Highlands? Does he agree that, although most of us are in favour of people having holiday homes in the Highlands, this demand should be met by an increase in the housing stock and not lead to local people being priced out of their home market? Will the right hon. Gentleman have urgent talks with local authorities to find a solution to what is a serious problem in some areas which is bound to get worse as time goes on?

Mr. Campbell

The report has not yet reached me, so I am not aware of what will be put to me. The question of second homes in the Highlands is a serious one of which I am aware. Last November I had discussions with representatives of the local authorities and other bodies concerned on this whole question, which needs urgent consideration, particularly in view of the welcome boom in the North which has led to new developments and has put great pressure upon housing in that area.

6. Mr. Ewing

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what discussions he has had with local authorities about his proposals to widen their rôle as outlined in "Homes for People: Scottish Housing Policy in the 1970s". Command Paper No. 5272.

Mr. Gordon Campbell

The wider rôle which local authorities are encouraged to adopt covers a number of activities on which discussions are held as appropriate.

Mr. Ewing

The Secretary of State says that he holds discussions with local authorities on the widening of their rôle in housing. What wider rôle can local authorities have than that which they have at present? What wider rôle does the Secretary of State envisage local authorities having? Is he aware that the White Paper is probably the biggest non-event in housing history? It makes no new proposals and it refers to discussion on only two specific points—the need to release more land for private house building and the land hoarding charge. Is not the fact that the Minister is responsible for restricting the rôle of local authorities rather than for widening it?

Mr. Campbell

I disagree. The local authorities have wide powers but not all of them are adopting the rôle which those powers enable them to adopt. For example, some are simply becoming letting and repair agencies, whereas they have duties to meet all the housing needs in their areas. I am asked what points are envisaged in the rôle of local authorities. They are set out in the White Paper. I will give the hon. Gentleman one straight away—the selling of council houses in appropriate situations to sitting tenants. That is something which local authorities can do and which many of them unfortunately are not doing.

Mr. Sproat

In the light of what he has said, will my right hon. Friend give the latest figures for the sale of council houses to tenants and say which authorities in particular are holding back?

Mr. Campbell

I cannot without notice give the latest figures. I have given figures from time to time and I am glad to see a steady increase in the number of council houses being sold. I should like to see many more sold on appropriate occasions because I know that many tenants want to buy their houses and it is sometimes frustrating for them when their local authorities for apparently doctrinal reasons refuse to sell.

Mr. William Hamilton

Will the right hon. Gentleman say what contribution the sale of council houses will make to the solution of the overall housing problem? How much easier is it now for young couples to get a mortgage than it was, say, two years ago?

Mr. Campbell

It is a useful contribution, with others, that can be made to help the housing problem. Where payment is immediately made the local authority is provided with money with which immediately to start building another house for someone on the housing list. One of the objections which have been raised is that in some way this process holds up people who are on the waiting list.

Mr. Edward Taylor

Does my right hon. Friend agree that many local authorities have long housing waiting lists and, at the same time, many empty houses that they are unable to let? Is not this one of the major housing problems in our cities which councils themselves should do something about by providing more amenities and glamorising schemes in which houses are empty when there are thousands of names on the waiting list?

Mr. Campbell

I agree that that is one of the misfortunes of the present situation, and it is entirely due to the game of numbers that the Labour Party started in trying to hit a target, which was missed. The Labour Government encouraged local authorities to build houses as fast as they could without proper thought about where they should be, what was the need or whether there were proper amenities. As a result, there are now hundreds of council houses empty although there are many applicants who wish to live in them.

Mr. Robert Hughes

Does not the answer given by the Secretary of State show that he has his priorities totally out of context? He is concerned that council houses should be sold at a time when the replacement rate of new building is lower than is needed to replace houses demolished for slum clearance. When will he tackle the question of raising the house building target?

Mr. Campbell

I said that there were other points in the White Paper, and I gave only one. At Question Time I cannot give a long catalogue. Another point, however, is concentration on slum clearance. The year before last was a record year for Scotland for slum clearance, and last year was very nearly the same. This is one of the important duties of local authorities. They have the powers. There are also other matters such as environmental improvement. I cannot go into them all. These are the areas in which the local authorities have the powers but in which too few of them are adopting the rôle they could adopt by doing a great deal more than simply being letting agencies and carrying out repairs.

8. Mr. David Steel

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he took account of the recently published Shelter report "No Place to Call Home", before publishing the White Paper, "Homes for People".

Mr. Gordon Campbell

Yes, Sir.

Mr. Steel

Will the Secretary of State say why there is not a more urgent reflection in the White Paper of the need to co-ordinate work on housing with the social work authorities? It is not good enough to leave it until after the reform of local government. The right hon. Gentleman must be aware that the legal situation in Scotland is inferior to that in England in terms of the protection of the homeless. Nor is there the same guidance. The number of children in care is higher in Scotland than in England and there is not the same provision of temporary accommodation for the homeless in Scotland as there is in England. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that all this requires urgent attention?

Mr. Campbell

The hon. Gentleman misunderstands the situation if he thinks that there has been any oversight. I regard the problem of homelessness as extremely urgent. I am setting up a special body to consider this matter and to make recommendations. In the meantime local authorities have power to assist.

22. Mr. Sproat

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will seek to call a meeting with Aberdeen Corporation to discuss the relevance of the recent White Paper on Scottish housing to the special housing problems of Aberdeen and the North-East.

Mr. Younger

I hope that it will be possible to arrange a meeting shortly.

Mr. Sproat

Does my hon. Friend agree that Aberdeen is a special case in matters of housing and problems of land shortage? The increase in house prices is particularly acute in Aberdeen, almost more so than anywhere else in Scotland. May I suggest that my hon. Friend gets in touch directly and as soon as possible with the Lord Provost of Aberdeen to arrange a time for a meeting to discuss these problems?

Mr. Younger

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his interest in this matter. He has been to see me several times in recent days about it. I agree that Aberdeen has special problems at the moment. These are due to the fact that large numbers of people are trying to find homes in a limited amount of accommodation. The only solution is to build a lot more houses. My hon. Friend will be glad to hear that I have today written to the Lord Provost and the County Convenor offering to meet them and to give them what help I can regarding this difficult problem. I hope that the meeting will take place before long.

Mr. Robert Hughes

One appreciates the action being taken by the Minister and welcomes the conversion of his hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, South (Mr. Sproat) who only recently was telling the people of Aberdeen that it was just hard luck that prices were going up.

Mr. Sproat

Rubbish.

Mr. Hughes

May I ask the Minister, however, whether he will consider meeting not only the Lord Provost of Aberdeen or the County Convener of Aber-deenshire but other county conveners too, because land is being purchased in the area at £25,000 an acre and the price rises by £5,000 an acre every time there is a sale of land?

Mr. Younger

I reject the hon. Gentleman's unfounded suggestion about what my hon. Friend is alleged to have said. For some considerable time my hon. Friend has been raising most actively with me the problem of Aberdeen's housing.

On the other point raised by the hon. Gentleman, I think that it would be wise in the first instance to offer to meet Aberdeen Corporation and the convener for the surrounding area to see whether we can identify special problems in relation to which we can give particular help. The increase in prices is a result of many people chasing a limited amount of accommodation and I hope that local authorities will explore all possible ways of building more houses to meet the demand.