HC Deb 29 March 1973 vol 853 cc1522-6
Q3. Mr. Wyn Roberts

asked the Prime Minister if he will place in the Library a copy of his public speech on counter-inflation delivered at the annual general meeting of the Bexleyheath Conservative Association on 9th March.

The Prime Minister

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply I gave on the 27th of March to the hon. Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Meacher).—[Vol. 853, c. 293.]

Mr. Roberts

In that speech my right hon. Friend offered a partnership to the trade unions in the management of the economy. Is it not clear that the trade unions should now accept this offer without delay, since it clearly involves an examination of the workings of the Industrial Relations Act with a view to amending phase 3 and such social objectives as the improvement of the conditions of the low-paid and, finally, a return to a free voluntary system of collective bargaining?

The Prime Minister

Yes, Sir. I hope that it will be possible to resume discussions of this kind. There were very fruitful discussions between the Government and the TUC at the beginning of the year, although the TUC did not find itself able to take part in stage 2 organisation. Nevertheless, we benefited from the views which it expressed. I hope that, on a wider front, this will now be possible. As the House will have seen, some of the proposals made yesterday by Mr. Scanlon would require amendments in the Industrial Relations Act. We have always offered to consider amendments which are suggested. This has been a long-standing offer, which was made right at the beginning of the Chequers talks, but this is the first time that specific matters have been mentioned.

Mr. Grimond

Has the Prime Minister had time to study Mr. Scanlon's suggested amendments? If so, does he think that he will be able to accept them? That seems a very important point. In view of his own speeches and in addition to these proposals from Mr. Scanlon, which seem to make for a better atmosphere, does the Prime Minister now propose to invite the trade unions to meet him to discuss amendments to the Act and, indeed, the future of the counter-inflation policy in general?

The Prime Minister

On the first point, there has obviously not been time yet to consider the proposals of Mr. Scanlon in detail. The TUC will expect the Government to consider amendments from the TUC itself. That would be the normal way of handling such matters. There is a standing invitation to the TUC to discuss this whenever it wishes.

Mr. Norman Lamont

Does my right hon. Friend not agree that while the Leader of the Opposition is perfectly entitled to be either for or against the Labour Party's backing industrial action against the Government's counter-inflation policy, it is the negation of political leadership for him to abstain in a vote on this issue at a meeting of the Labour Party's National Executive? Should not the Leader of the Opposition come clean —or shall we have to wait until the next edition of Cecil King's diaries to find out the truth?

Mr. Wellbeloved

On a point of order. Can you rule, Mr. Speaker, whether it is in order for the hon. Member for Kingston-upon-Thames (Mr. Norman Lamont) persistently to attempt to disrupt and waste time during Prime Minister's Questions by directing questions to the Leader of the Opposition? Is it not a fact that questions should be directed only to the Prime Minister?

Mr. Speaker

In answer to that point, I think that I had better say that no question of order arises.

Mr. Edward Short

In reply to the last question, the Prime Minister said that the unions had a standing invitation to discuss "this" at any time. Is he saying that they have a standing invitation to discuss the Industrial Relations Act and its revision at any time?

The Prime Minister

Yes, indeed, and to discuss any other matters which they wish to raise.

Mr. Harold Wilson

On inflation, which is the subject of this speech, I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on arm-twisting the building societies to postpone their increase until after the GLC and other elections—[Interruption.]—this affects 5 million families in this country, and I expect an answer—but is he aware that as a result of his policy some building societies have already raised their rates to 9½ and 10 per cent., and that a general rise is now regarded in the movement as inevitable? How does he reconcile this, first, with his election pledges and, second, with his standstill and prices and incomes restraint?

The Prime Minister

The right hon. Gentleman has constantly to be told that in his own arrangements for a standstill he did not seek to take control over interest rates; neither have this Government, because it is one of the features of the regulation of the economy. As for the building societies, I know that individual societies have made their own arrangements but, as the right hon. Gentleman has acknowledged, the Government are in consultation with the Building Societies Association and the association itself has not yet made any recommendation.

Mr. Wilson

The right hon. Gentleman has given this answer several times when I have put this question to him. Does he not realise that this has nothing to do with the regulation of the economy, with the old use of Bank Rate, which was a casual factor in regulation? Is he aware that the building society movement is saying, and saying rightly, that this is the result of the Government's introduction of new banking regulations in 1971, which meant that the Government had no control over the situation? Will he now act? Does he agree with the figure given in the House yesterday of an increase from just over £5,000 to £8,500 in the average cost of a new house in this country in the fourth quarter of last year, compared with only two years earlier? What calculation has been made of how a young family on an average income can afford a mortgage at 10 per cent. on that basis?

The Prime Minister

I think that the right hon. Gentleman has failed to understand the position. The ability of the authorities to intervene to influence interest rates through open market operations is the same today as it has always been.

Sir Harmar Nicholls

Will my right hon. Friend take into account the fact that the points made by the Leader of the Opposition are real and important to the people of this country? The increases in the cost of houses and in interest rates are a direct result of inflation. Could he not call upon the Opposition and the trade unions to play a real part in trying to end inflation?

The Prime Minister

I have constantly invited the TUC and the CBI to assist in the battle against inflation, and I think that the response there will have been more effective than would be the case if the right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends were so invited. So far as I can see, they are spending their time supporting political strikes.