HC Deb 12 March 1973 vol 852 cc894-6
Mr. Alexander W. Lyon

I beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House, under Standing Order No. 9, for the purpose of discussing a specific and important matter that should have urgent consideration: namely, the report in the Guardian this morning of the conditions and rates of pay of employees of British companies in South Africa. The matter is certainly specific. It alleges against about a dozen British companies that the rates of pay that they are paying to their employees are less than those required to maintain the essential elements of life as recorded by what is known as the poverty datum line. The poverty datum line is no more than that which is required to maintain people against starvation. Surely it is right that this House, which in the past has had a notable record of concern for people living in régimes where we have some direct responsibility, should take into consideration the conditions of people living in South Africa at this level for whom we may have some responsibility.

It is important precisely because human life and the misery of conditions in South Africa are of the utmost importance in determining the future conduct of blacks in the Southern African situation. We have seen only too recently the tragic consequences of communal strife in our own country. In the statement made a few moments ago we heard of what might possibly be the effects of communal strife elsewhere. If this were to break out in the Southern African situation the consequences would be terrible, and it is right that we should take any steps that we can in order to safeguard that area of the world against those consequences.

The really difficult part of my task is to persuade the House that this needs urgent consideration, as distinct from merely putting down a Question at some suitable date for the Foreign Secretary to answer. It requires urgent consideration because of the contents of the report, which I advise hon. Members to read if they have not already done so. It refers to people complaining that their children are suffering from kwashiokor because of the conditions in which they are made to work, and also that because of the rates of pay they cannot afford sufficient milk, for instance, to feed their children.

The response of the manager of a British-owned firm to that complaint was that the milk was fed first to the cattle and only afterwards, if there was anything to spare, to the Bantus. I suggest that in consequence of that kind of attitude it is of the utmost importance that this report is debated in the House in order that urgent steps are taken to remove the threat to life and to the health of African employees of British companies because of their present conditions and rates of pay.

It may be that in this case it would be easy for the Secretary of State—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Member is going over the line. He is not allowed to make now the sort of speech that he would make if his application were allowed. The hon. Member must confine himself to why I should give the matter precedence over other business of the House.

Mr. Lyon

I was seeking to apply my mind precisely to that point, because the answer which I suspect may be arising in your mind, Mr. Speaker, is that this argument could be met by some executive act on the part of some members of Her Majesty's Government. What I was seeking to suggest to the House was that although it would be possible for some Ministers to act in that way, there is no sign that they are responding in such a way to this kind of report. It is therefore important that the House should express its mind urgently upon this matter.

The House has not discussed this issue in all the years—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Member is going too far. He is making his speech on the merits of the case, which he is not allowed to do.

Mr. Lyon

I shall hasten not to do that, Mr. Speaker. All I am asking is that the matter should be considered fairly upon its merits as a matter of the utmost urgently, and I hope that having considered the arguments which I have deployed you will think it right to rule that there is here a prima facie case for consideration.

Mr. Speaker

I am not sure that that is what I have to do under the Standing Order. The hon. Member was courteous enough to say that he would raise this matter, and, even though in my view he has gone over the line, that has not prejudiced me against his application.

I have to consider this matter very carefully. Without doubt these allegations are important, and at some stage they should be investigated. My decision is simply whether they should be investidated in this House today or tomorrow to the prejudice of other business of the House. I am afraid that I cannot grant the application.