§ 10.25 p.m.
§ Mr. Norman Fowler (Nottingham, South)My purpose is to question the adequacy of methods to prevent national insurance cards being issued to illegal immigrants. This is an important question, and I shall necessarily be extraordinarily brief.
The matter arises out of the announcement by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services in reply to a Question yesterday. It is important that the point should be made clear that this is essentially the matter of the method of controlling immigration. It concerns the mechanics of control. We 1001 are not saying that a whole new class of people should suddenly become liable to immigration control. We are exploring ways and means whereby the present regulations can be enforced. It is, therefore, absolutely a question of enforcement.
There is a danger, perhaps, in underestimating illegal immigration, and I think this was the pitfall that the Guardian fell into this morning in its first leader. I mention the Guardian because of its position in race relations and its reporting of the subject, which is of such a standard that the newspaper has a high influence in this area. I do not agree with it that this amounts to some kind of introduction of pass laws into this country, nor can I agree with it when it says that the vast majority of illegal immigrants coming into this country, or about to come in, are simply people who have jumped the queue. The evidence that we are getting that comes from the Embassy and the immigration office in Pakistan establishes that this is not the case. Therefore, I ask my hon. Friend whether he will make a further announcement of the details of any experiments which may have resulted in this new scheme.
§ 10.28 p.m.
§ The Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Security (Mr. Paul Dean)I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham, South (Mr. Fowler) for raising this subject. I calculate that I have about two minutes in which to reply. I am grateful to him also for putting the announcement by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State earlier in the week into perspective. This is emphatically not a witch hunt. It is primarily to help the Department to get accurate information which is required for national insurance purposes, and it 1002 is in the direct interests of the people concerned because their entitlement to benefit depends upon this.
However, if, in the process, suspicion of illegal entry appears, the immigration service will be informed. I do not believe that any law-abiding citizen would object to that.
Perhaps I can make clear that none of this in any way alters the arrangement which already exists about confidential and personal information. Instructions which embody the Department's longstanding policy provide that the information in any of the records concerning individuals is to be regarded as strictly confidential and is not to be disclosed to third parties without the consent of the person concerned. Exceptionally, information, but not files, can be disclosed in the departmental and public interest to other Departments or public bodies to prevent duplication of payments from public funds to meet statutory or welfare requirements and to assist the police in the prosecution of cases other than trivial crime.
Some of our local offices in the West Midlands have as a matter of practice since 1970 asked for a passport or other document from those who enter this country. This is done irrespective of nationality. The experiment has worked well. It has been valuable, particularly in the production of records, and all we are now proposing is that, having tried it out in one area and proved its value, it should be extended to the rest of the country. I hope, therefore, that in the few moments I have had to explain this I have been able to put the matter in perspective.
§ Question put and agreed to.
§ Adjourned accordingly at twenty-nine minutes past Ten o'clock.