HC Deb 20 June 1973 vol 858 cc748-9
Captain Orr

I beg to move Amendment No. 61, in page 6, line 5, leave out subsection (6).

We are dealing here with measures affected by the urgency procedure. A measure submitted under the urgency procedure is to be subject to annulment by a Prayer in this House. My point is that subsection (6) says that such a motion seeking to table a Prayer must be signed by not fewer than 20 Members. That would mean that even if all the Northern Irish Members were agreed they would not be able to table a Prayer to annul a measure. I thought that an amendment to reduce the minimum period might be in order but eventually I decided that I would table a probing amendment to give the Minister a chance to explain this proposal.

Mr. Peter Mills

The effect of this amendment would be twofold. First, it would mean that any one Member of the House of Commons or the House of Lords could table a motion praying against a proposed measure, asking that it should not be submitted to Her Majesty in Council for approval. Secondly, it would delete the provision for the period of 20 days mentioned in Clause 6(1)(a) and (4)(a) dealing with the reference to sitting days only. This would mean that the 20 days during which a measure was required to be laid before Parliament could be during the recess. There would then be no opportunity to table a Prayer against such a measure. This would obviously be undesirable.

I understand the point my hon. and gallant Friend makes about it being difficult for one Member from Northern Ireland to do this but it is a matter which has to come before the House as a whole. The House should be able to act as a check on the action of a Secretary of State in recommending that Her Majesty confirm a measure, but it would be wrong if there were not a body of opinion in Parliament which questioned that measure. I hope that my hon. and gallant Friend recognises the significance of that.

Captain Orr

My hon. Friend is quite right to point out the effect of this amendment, which goes far wider than the point I was seeking to make. I wanted to raise the issue of the numbers involved. I understand that there has to be some kind of protection against what could be called constant maverick praying against measures by individual Members. The figure of 20 mentioned in the subsection prevents all of the Northern Ireland Members acting in concert and bringing a Prayer before the House.

Mr. Mills

I understand the point. It means that 20 signatures have to be found, but no doubt my hon. and gallant Friend, with his usual powers of persuasion, will find many others to join him in signing such a motion.

Mr. Orme

May I ask a question on this? If 20 signatures are obtained, is it mandatory for the Prayer to be taken? If that is so, it will be an advance on the present situation. We often pray against orders and obtain more than 20 signatures but we do not always have a debate.

Mr. Mills

It is not mandatory.

Captain Orr

My hon. Friend was kind enough to speak of my powers of persuasion. I do not think that the results in our recent Divisions are monuments to that. I take the point about the requirement for a sizeable body of opinion and, having had the matter explained, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

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