CONSOLIDATED FUND OF NORTHERN IRELAND (Hansard, 20 June 1973)

§ Mr. Stratton Mills
I should like to raise a matter that I had hoped to deal with by way of an amendment. I tabled it today, but did not expect that we should make quite such speedy progress.
There is much merit in ensuring that there is a method by which the Northern Ireland Assembly is directly involved with the Estimates. The point of my amendment was to consider whether a rôle in examining the estimates of Northern Ireland departments could be given to the Assembly. That would be an important and useful extension of its work.

Mr. Howell
I think that my hon. Friend is referring to an amendment which I must confess I have not yet seen. I gather that he tabled it only today. I understand that he is concerned with the Estimates, and the way in which they should be dealt with by the Assembly. Is that right?

§ Mr. Biggs-Davison
Are we discussing Amendment No. 29 or Clause 13?

The Temporary Chairman
Clause 13. As I understand it, the amendment has not been selected.

§ Mr. Stratton Mills
Perhaps I can clarify the matter. I fear that I may be confusing the Committee. The point that I am making is that there must be merit in considering whether the members of the Assembly should have power to have some form of committee or body to consider the Estimates of Departments. As I understand it, there is no such power under this legislation. I am availing myself of the opportunity on this Clause, 780 to put that matter to my hon. Friend the Minister of State.

Mr. Howell
I am subject to correction, but I think that I am right in saying that the power exists to require members of the Assembly to set up a committee for the scrutiny of expenditure. I shall, with my hon. Friend's permission, and possibly during discussion on further amendments on the clauses related to financial provision, give him chapter and verse of where that arises.

§ Mr. Merlyn Rees
I have two questions, and it may help us in our consideration of the next few clauses if I ask them now. In the Northern Ireland Financial Arrangements and Legislation White Paper, which the Government helpfully published in June 1972, there was a reference to lending to the Government of Northern Ireland from the National Loans Fund. I apologise for not having chapter and verse but I am pretty sure that the White Paper talked about continued lending to the Government of Northern Ireland from the National Loans Fund. There are certain rules and regulations which we impose upon ourselves in this Parliament whereby moneys go to the National Loans Fund and then out to the nationalised industries and to local government. Is it under Clause 13 that the payment of money by the Government at Westminster to the Assembly is dealt with? In other words, would it come out of the Consolidated Fund or would it be under Clause 14, 15 or 16?
Secondly, we have always been most interested in the work of the Northern Ireland Finance Corporation. I presume that the corporation would be responsible to the Assembly. Since direct rule a large sum of money has been paid by the Government to the corporation. How would that money be channelled into the new Executive under the arrangements in Clause 13, 14, 15 or 16? Those are complicated questions, but they may appear simple to the Minister of State. If, at some stage, we could be given the Government's views on the matter that I have raised, we should be grateful.

§ Mr. David Howell
The question of the transfer into the Northern Ireland Consolidated Fund of a share of United Kingdom finances—that is the way the system will be arranged—comes under 781 Clause 15. I should be happy, on the Clause, to discuss further in detail how the system will work, but I should probably be out of order if I went too far ahead of Clause 13.
The hon. Gentleman is correct in what he says about the Northern Ireland Finance Corporation. If the Bill is passed and the Executive is formed, on the appropriate criteria, by the Secretary of State, this provision will come under the Assembly, the Executive, and all the appropriate committees.
I turn now to the question of the financing of the activities of the corporation. I think that arrangements have been made to put aside, over the years ahead £50 million for the use of the corporation. That would be paid out under the procedures in Clauses 14 and 15, which require measures approved by the Assembly when fresh expenditure is incurred to be approved by the head of the Department of Finance. That would be governed by the procedures of the Assembly. It would be very much up to the Assembly to establish a working relationship with the corporation such as we have already through the Ministry of Commerce.