HC Deb 19 June 1973 vol 858 cc349-51
6. Mr. Ashton

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is the number of people now on social security, at the latest date, compared to June 1970.

Mr. Dean

I assume that the hon. Member is referring to supplementary benefit. The number of people receiving regular payments of supplementary benefit on 15th May 1973 was about 2,819,000 compared with 2,689,000 in May 1970.

Mr. Ashton

Is not that an admission that 140,000 more people are on supplementary benefit? How does the hon. Gentleman reconcile the Prime Minister's speech yesterday about a booming Britain with the figures that he has just announced? Is it not booming poverty that we have been seeing over the last three years, with more people on social security?

Mr. Dean

I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman. The percentage of people in receipt of benefit is much the same as it was in June 1970. The numbers have risen partly because we unproved the benefits in real terms but also because the number of people likely to be eligible for benefit, particularly pensioners, has also risen during that period.

Mr. Boscawen

Is not it true that as the level of pensions is increased so the level of supplementary benefits is increased, and so the number of people on supplementary benefit will be increased? Is that not to the credit of the present Government?

Mr. Dean

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. What the Labour Party must answer is the question whether it wishes to see the real value of the benefits for those who are most vulnerable in our community, and those most in need, being increased. If it wishes to see them increased, the number of people becoming eligible for these benefits will also tend to increase.

Mr. O'Malley

Does the Under-Secretary agree that what is highly unsatisfactory about the figures is that nearly 2 million people of the total number of people on supplementary benefit are retirement pensioners or people over retirement age? Is not the tragedy and condemnation of the Government the fact that they have introduced legislation which will mean that not only the present generation of pensioners but also retirement pensioners far into the future, even into the next century, will continue to be dependent on means-tested supplementary benefit in order to be able to live at all?

Mr. Dean

On the contrary, the present Government are the first Government to introduce a tax credit scheme which fill provide more help than anything that any Government have done since the war by reducing substantially the number of pensioners dependent on supplementary benefit.

Mrs. Knight

Will my hon. Friend consider the advisability of suggesting to officials in social security offices that it might be a good thing if they drew people's attention to the fact that, in some cases, although they might wish to come off social security and take a job, they would be better off continuing to receive social security and, therefore, that the officials should advise them not to take a job?

Mr. Dean

I understand the point that my hon. Friend is making. There is a difficult area on the margin here, particularly where a large number of young dependent children is involved.

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