§ 15. Mr. Douglasasked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will commission a study of the multiplier effect of the location of Civil Service jobs in Scotland since 1964.
§ Mr. Gordon CampbellA retrospective study of this magnitude would be disproportionately expensive in cost and manpower. I am, however, considering with my colleagues the feasibility of a study related to the multiplier effects of selected office dispersals as they occur in the future.
§ Mr. DouglasI accept some of the economic difficulties mentioned by the right hon. Gentleman, but does he not admit that what the Hardman Report is dealing with is not the dispersal of 30,000 jobs but the creation of 50,000 jobs, and therefore the contribution that Hardman envisages for Scotland is niggardly indeed? Will the right hon. Gentleman examine this carefully and put up a strong fight in the Cabinet to get the Hardman figures substantially increased?
§ Mr. CampbellThe House should know by now that the report contains the 475 recommendations and views of Sir Henry Hardman and not those of the Government. The Government are considering the multiplier effects that were discussed in the report, together with all the other matters in it, before making their views known.
§ Mr. MaclennanWhatever the exact results of this inquiry, the fact is that the multiplier effect is widely recognised. Does not that make it totally unacceptable that the Government have written off Scotland as a European trade centre? Does not the right hon. Gentleman recognise, as others throughout the rest of the country and Europe do, that Edinburgh is a great capital city, of European standing, and that it would be highly suitable for this purpose? If the right hon. Gentleman accepts that, will he say why he has written it off as a non-starter?
§ Mr. CampbellThe hon. Gentleman has misrepresented what I said earlier. I said that the siting of the trade mark centre was a European decision and that it had become clear that it was either London or nothing. That does not mean that Edinburgh, which is a capital city and which has shown that it can offer the facilities required for headquarters and conferences, should not be suitable for other kinds of European offices and centres, and that fact will be pressed by me on every occasion.
§ 16. Mr. John Smithasked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will raise the matter of the Hardman Committee's Report at the next meeting of the Scottish Economic Council.
§ Mr. Gordon CampbellThe council gave preliminary consideration to the report at its meeting on 22nd June.
§ Mr. SmithWill the right hon. Gentleman say at what conclusion it arrived? Does the right hon. Gentleman understand that everybody in Scotland—both sides of industry and Scottish Members—will join in the battle to persuade the Government to give more Civil Service jobs to Scotland? Does the right hon. Gentleman further understand that in order to make it effective he has to lead the campaign to change Government policy? What does the right hon. Gentleman propose to do to make sure that this stupid report is reversed?
§ Mr. CampbellThe hon. Gentleman was not a Member of the House at the time, but those who were will recall that I was a member of the Government and in a key position concerned with the question when the decision was taken by the previous Conservative Government, nearly 10 years ago now, that the Post Office Savings Bank should be moved to Glasgow. Beneficial results have flowed from that, including the provision of about 6,000 new jobs in the Glasgow area. This is something about which I am vitally concerned, and I hope to have the support of Scottish Members on both sides of the House in making sure that all that Scotland can offer is considered and taken fully into account before decisions are taken.
Mr. Edward TaylorWill my right hon. Friend ensure that the Scottish Economic Planning Council considers the possibility of advising the Government of the benefits of dispersing the headquarters of nationalised industries based in London? There is a case for dispersing Civil Service jobs to Scotland, but is not there an even greater case for dispersing some of the headquarters of nationalised industries which are many miles away from the industries they control?
§ Mr. CampbellMy hon. Friend has raised a separate matter, but one that has similar considerations. It certainly ought to be borne in mind.
§ Mr. RossMay we take it, then, that the Secretary of State was not party to the Government's decision that the rest of Scotland, apart from Glasgow, was a non-starter in relation to dispersal?
Secondly, when the right hon. Gentleman is preparing his briefs in respect of answering the Hardman position about Scotland's undesirability or impracticability in relation to the efficiency of government, and so on, will he answer the questions about communications and the Scottish Office dispersal? Apparently it is not realised that at one time the Scottish Office was in London and that it was not the Ministers who were dispersed but the jobs. If the right hon. Gentleman prepares the briefs, will he give a copy to every Scottish Member, because in this we shall be united to ensure that Scotland benefits?
§ Mr. CampbellI welcome the right hon. Gentleman's remarks. I am glad to think that he will be supporting me in doing things for the benefit of Scotland. The right hon. Gentleman was incorrect in his first statement; the Glasgow area was indicated as a suitable location but not to the exclusion of other Scottish locations. He will recall, as will many hon. Members, that there was a campaign—which I welcomed—by the Glasgow area, before the Hardman Report was published, and that I was then making it clear that this must not be to the exclusion of other parts of Scotland, including the new towns.
§ Mr. GrimondAs the Secretary of State has rightly said, Edinburgh is suitable as the headquarters for certain European institutions, and so on. What are the institutions and headquarters—either British or European—that the Government are pressing should go to Edinburgh?
§ Mr. CampbellThese subjects arise from time to time. When suggestions are made for headquarters, or the moving or setting up of headquarters, we shall make sure that not only Edinburgh but any other suitable part of Scotland is considered.
§ Mr. RossHas the Secretary of State read the Government's statement in the preface to the Hardman Report? Paragraph 6 says that the Government endorse
Sir Henry Hardman's view that few rather than many locations should be selected.The only one that the right hon. Gentleman considers among these few in Scotland is Glasgow.
§ Mr. CampbellThe right hon. Gentleman did not listen to what I said. This is a report by Sir Henry Hardman. The Glasgow area was indicated as a suitable location because of its capacity and on regional policy grounds, but not to the exclusion of other areas of Scotland.