WATER CHARGES (Hansard, 17 July 1973)

§ Mr. Speaker
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following Lords Amendments;
No. 79, in page 32, line 25, leave out from "appropriate" to end of line 28.
No. 80, in page 32, line 38, at end insert— (5A) The Secretary of State may, after consultation with the Council, give all or any of the water authorities directions as to the criteria to be applied or the system to be adopted by them under subsection (3) above and in giving a direction under this subsection the Secretary of State shall have regard to the provisions of subsections (4) and (5) above. No. 81, in Clause 28, page 33,-line 26, leave out from "may" to end of line 28 and insert: give directions to all water authorities or any particular water authority as to the services, facilities or rights for which provision is to be made in a charges scheme". No. 82, in clause 29, page 34, line 3, after "therefrom" insert: whether or not the charges are payable by reference to any other factors)". No. 83, in page 34, line 23, leave out "and ascertaining therefrom" and insert: , together with any ancillary fittings and associated works, and ascertaining from any such meter". 441 No. 84, in page 34, line 25, leave out from "discharged" to end of line 27.
No. 85, in Clause 30, page 36, line 2, leave out paragraph (f) and insert— (f) all statutory water undertakers existing immediately before the passing of this Act, except statutory water companies, joint water boards, joint water committees and existing local authorities and other bodies exercising functions not affected by this Act. No. 86, in page 36, line 7, at end insert: and joint committees of sewerage authorities existing immediately before the passing of this Act No. 87, in page 36, line 9, leave out from "Act" to end of line 11 and insert: (continuation of existing joint boards and committees) shall not apply to bodies which cease to exist by virtue of this section".

§ Mr. Oakes
Lords Amendment No. 80 includes in subsection (3) a new provision, or a restatement of an existing provision. It deals with the vital subject of charges and the financing of charges. The Bill represents a shift of responsibility from the elected local authority representatives to the regional water authorities, nearly half of which are to be appointed by the Secretary of State. The Committee decided that the chairmen of the regional water authorities should be elected by the authorities, not appointed by the Secretary of State. But that provision was removed on Report, and greater governmental control of the regional water authorities was provided, in that the chairmen are to be appointed by the Secretary of State.
The Government are not content with taking democratic control for local authorities and having the chairmen and many of the members appointed by the Secretary of State. Lords Amendment No. 80 spells out clearly and precisely, far more than subsection (3) does, that The Secretary of State may, after consultation with the Council, give all or any of the water authorities directions as to the criteria to be applied or the system to be adopted by them under subsection (3)", which relates to charges.
We had a long debate on Report about water meters. Do the clause and Lords Amendment No. 80 mean that the Government are not even content with the regional water authorities exercising their own minds, and are prepared to give directions to them, not just to one but to all, as to the Government's policy 442 that the regional water authorities must follow on the vital matter of charging, which is central to the whole Bill and is the most sensitive area for the public?
I appreciate that subsection (3) contains provision for direction, but Lords Amendment No. 80 seems much more nakedly to spell out to the regional water authorities that unless they toe the Government's line the Government will issue a direction on the vital matter of charging, not necessarily to one but to all authorities. I concede that the Government gave regional water authorities a majority of local authority representatives. Is the amendment a safeguard provision by the Government, that unless the regional water authorities toe the line they will be subject to a direction from the Secretary of State as to how they charge for their water?

§ Mr. Graham Page
It is certainly not a question of depriving anyone of democratic rights. When a water authority of the kind detailed in the Bill has been set up, that authority, managing the water resources, must have a discretion to fix the charges. What we hope to achieve by the Clause and the amendment is a partnership in considering the criteria for those charges between the regional water authorities, the National Water Council and the Secretary of State, who must have the ultimate responsibility in these financial matters in deciding on a national water policy.
We cannot take Lords Amendment No. 80 alone. It goes with Lords Amendments Nos. 78 and 79. Subsection (3) already gives the water authorities a permissive power to fix their charges by reference to such criteria and to adopt any system for the calculation of their amount which seems to them to be appropriate. The power is subject to any directions the Secretary of State may give after consultation with the National Water Council.
It is envisaged that any directions of that sort will merely confirm the result of discussions between the Government, the water authorities and the National Water Council. Discussions with the water authorities will normally take place not direct between the Secretary of State and the authorities, but through the council. It is to the council that the Secretary of State will look for advice.
443 11.30 p.m.
As originally drafted, subsection (3) seemed to give the authorities a wide discretion in deciding whether to comply with these directions. Any directions of the Secretary of State on charging policy should in my view be mandatory, and the amendments achieve this. It should be noted, however, that the Secretary of State can proceed to make directions under subsection (5A) of the Clause only after consultation with the council and is subject in making directions to the same obligations as the water authorities under subsections (4) and (5) of Clause 27. That is, regard must be had to the cost of providing services in fixing the charges for them, and no undue discrimination against or preference for any class of person should be shown in fixing charges after 1st April 1981. These conditions must be observed by the Secretary of State in giving directions, just as they must be observed by the water authorities.
In the end, it must be the Secretary of State who is responsible, and responsible to this House, for the methods of financing national water policy. We would seek to have consultations and a partnership in these decisions among the Secretary of State, the National Water Council and the regional water authorities.

§ Mr. Denis Howell
That was a most unsatisfactory statement by the Minister. Throughout these debates the Opposition have been expressing their grave concern about the whittling away of local government democratic standards and the accountability of locally elected representatives. At the beginning of these proceedings, when the local authority associations expressed their concern and we expressed it on their behalf, we got a small concession from the Minister, under which local authority representatives had a majority of one on many of the regional water authorities. We did not like that very much.
At another stage in these proceedings, to which this matter is relevant, we were very concerned about the prospect of a revolutionary change in the charging arrangements for water users—the installation of water meters. In a long debate on Report, we made it clear that the 444 Opposition were totally opposed to any system by which the domestic user had to pay for water according to the amount he used. This could be a disincentive in terms of health and to usage by large families, it will bear very heavily on the sort of people whom we should be encouraging to use water and who are least able to afford it.
The Government relied on the argument that it was a permissive power which some water authorities might like to use. I remember the eloquent passage in the speech of the Under-Secretary, when he gave a graphic description of the habits of working class people on Sundays—washing their two cars, filling their swimming pools and using their washing machines and spin dryers. But at least this proposal was only a prospect for the future.
Now, the Minister says "The Secretary of State must have mandatory powers." This is, then, no longer a permissive authority for some wretched water authority to go over to a system of water meters or to any other system which many of us might feel disposed to oppose: we are now told that it is essential for the Government to have mandatory powers to order water authorities to base their charges on any criteria that the Secretary of State might like to lay down.
That is about the last nail in the coffin of local government democracy and the autonomy of local authorities, and certainly the autonomy of the water authorities. I am sorry that the Government have taken this last step backwards at this last minute of the Bill. We look at it with grave forebodings, and it is my duty on behalf of the Opposition to express our great concern and to say that we certainly shall not tolerate any system of charging by water meter when we have the opportunity to deal with the matter and to return to a more civilised local government arrangement.

§ Mr. Page
The hon. Gentleman does exaggerate tremendously, even at this late hour. The amendment merely tidies up what was already in the Bill. I was being frank as to what was in the Bill. I was making it clear and not trying to hide anything. Of course the Secretary of State must have power by direction to lay down criteria, if he sees fit, by which charges shall be made.
445 We are dividing subsection (3) into two parts. The first part leaves what is there already?— Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, a water authority may fix their charges by reference to such criteria, and may adopt such system for the calculation of their amount, as appears to them to be appropriate". We are inserting a full stop at that point. In future, the water authorities may fix their charges by reference to criteria they may decide in the first instance.
Then we take out the latter part of the present subsection (3) and put it more clearly in the new subsection (5A). but not so as to deprive democracy of any of its rights. It is clear from what the Secretary of State has to consider under the new subsection (5A) that there is no massive change from the Bill as it stood. There is simply better drafting and a clearer indication that initially it is for the water authorities to decide the criteria. Only if there is some major change in policy will the Secretary of State step in to lay down these criteria.