HC Deb 16 July 1973 vol 860 cc190-7

Lords Amendment: No. 30, in page 62, line 5, leave out "94" and insert "(The basic scheme in Northern Ireland)".

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Miss Harvie Anderson)

With this we can also take the following Lords amendments:

No. 31, after Clause 47, in page 62, line 9, at end insert new Clause B (the basic scheme in Northern Ireland): B.—(I) This Part of this Act, except sections 7, 8, 35A (Review of provision for chronically sick or disabled persons), 38, 39(2) to (4), 42(2), 46 and 47 and Schedules 11 and 12, extends to Northern Ireland, but with the adaptations set out in Schedule 12A (Adaptation of Part 1, and other provisions, for Northern Ireland) to this Act; and other provisions of this Act applying for the interpretation of this Part also extend to Northern Ireland with those adaptations. (2) Whenever the Secretary of State makes an order under section 7, 8 or 38 of this Act, the Northern Ireland Ministry shall make a corresponding order for Northern Ireland, amending—

  1. (a) this Part of this Act as it has effect in Northern Ireland;
  2. (b) the National Insurance (Industrial Injuries) Act (Northern Ireland) 1966; or
  3. (c) the Workmen's Compensation (Supplementation) Act (Northern Ireland) 1966,
in the same way, and to the same effect, and from as nearly as may be the same date or dates, as this Part of this Act, the Industrial Injuries Act or the Old Cases Act (as the case may be) is amended by the order of the Secretary of State. (3) The Secretary of State with the consent of the Treasury and the Northern Ireland Minister with the consent of the Ministry of Finance may make arrangements ("the joint arrangements") for co-ordinating the operation of this Part of this Act in Great Britain and its operation in Northern Ireland with a view to securing that, to the extent allowed for in the arrangements, the basic scheme as it operates in both territories does so as a single system. (4) The Joint Authority constituted under section 104 of the former principal Act (arrangements with Northern Ireland for unified system), consisting of the Secretary of State and the Northern Ireland Minister shall continue in being for the purposes also of this Part of this Act and is referred to in this Act as "the Joint Authority"; and Schedule 12B (Constitution of the Joint Authority for Great Britain and Northern Ireland) to this Act (reproducing Schedule 10 to the former principal Act) shall have effect with respect to the Authority. (5) The responsibility of the Joint Authority shall include that of giving effect to the joint arrangements, with power—
  1. (a) to make any necessary financial adjustments between the National Insurance Fund and the Northern Ireland National Insurance Fund; and
  2. (b) to discharge such other functions as may be provided under the joint arrangements;
(6) The Secretary of State in relation to Great Britain and the Northern Ireland Ministry in relation to Northern Ireland may make regulations for giving effect to the joint arrangements; and any such regulations may for any purpose of the basic scheme provide-
  1. (a) for adapting legislation (including subordinate legislation) for the time being in force in Great Britain or, as the case may be, in Northern Ireland so as to secure its reciprocal operation between the two territories;
  2. (b) without prejudice to paragraph (a) above, for securing that acts, omissions and events having any effect for the purposes of this Part of this Act in relation to Great Britain or, as the case may be, Northern Ireland, have a corresponding effect in relation to Northern Ireland or, as the case may be, Great Britain;
  3. (c) for the Joint Authority to be substituted for the Secretary of State and the Northern Ireland Ministry in relation to any power under this Part of this Act to make regulations (other than regulations under this paragraph) or orders.
(7) Regulations made by the Joint Authority may apply section 39(2) to (4) of this Act to Northern Ireland, with or without modifications, and provide for determining—
  1. (a) the persons who, being employed earners in respect of their membership of Her Majesty's forces, are to be treated as belonging to Northern Ireland; and
  2. (b) the sums paid as contributions by and in respect of those persons.
(8) Any sums determined by regulations under subsection (6)(b) above shall be treated as paid as basic scheme contributions under this Part of this Act as it applies to Northern Ireland, and not as it applies to Great Britain, for the purposes—
  1. (a) of arriving at the amount of any Treasury supplement or Northern Ireland Exchequer supplement; and
  2. (b) of making any adjustment between the National Insurance Fund and the Northern Ireland National Insurance Fund."

No. 42, in page 76, line 25, after "Act" insert "or the corresponding Northern Ireland legislation".

No. 46, in page 78, line 42, at end insert— and in its application to Northern Ireland the reference to a person's bankruptcy shall be read as including the vesting of a person's estate and effects in the official assignee under section 349 of the Irish Bankrupt and Insolvent Act 1857".

No. 49, in page 87, line 2, leave out "Minister" and insert "authority".

No. 50, in line 7, leave out "Minister" and insert "authority".

No. 51, in line 10, after "Service" insert or, in Northern Ireland, the Ministry of Finance".

No. 52, in line 12, leave out "Minister" and insert "authority".

No. 53, in line 24, leave out "Minister" and insert "authority".

No. 56, in line 37, after "Societies" insert— or, in Northern Ireland, the Registrar of Friendly Societies for Northern Ireland".

No. 57, in page 91, line 4, leave out "enactments" and insert "legislation"

No. 58, in line 8, leave out "enactments" and insert "legislation".

No. 59, in line 12, leave out subsection (4) and insert— (4) In this section—

  1. (a) as it applies to Great Britain—
    1. (i) "the relevant legislation" means the Friendly Societies Acts 1896 to 1971 and Part II of Schedule 8 to the Finance Act 1966,
    2. (ii) "registered society" has the same meaning as in the said Acts of 1896 to 1971, and
    3. (iii) "approved group insurance business" has the same meaning as in section 10 of the Friendly Societies Act 1971;
  2. (b) as it applies to Northern Ireland-
    1. (i) "the relevant legislation" means the Friendly Societies Act (Northern Ireland) 1970,
    2. (ii) "registered society" has the same meaning as in that Act, and
    3. (iii) "approved group insurance business" has the same meaning as in paragraph 11(5) of Schedule 2 to that Act".

No. 60, in page 92, line 1, leave out "enactments in force in Northern Ireland" and insert "Northern Ireland legislation".

No. 63, in page 94, line 19, after "department" insert "in Great Britain".

No. 65, in page 98, leave out lines 32 to 38, and insert— In those provisions as they apply by virtue of this subsection—

  1. (a) for "Great Britain" read the "United Kingdom"; and
  2. (b) in relation to contributions payable in Northern Ireland—
    1. (i) for the Secretary of State substitute the Northern Ireland Ministry (except where he is first referred to in Schedule 1, paragraph 6(2), and in paragraph 8), and
    2. (ii) for the Treasury substitute the Ministry of Finance.
(4A) Without prejudice to subsection (4) above, regulations may provide—
  1. (a) for treating secondary reserve scheme contributions payable (in respect of any earnings paid to or for the benefit of an earner) but not paid, as actually paid where the failure to pay is shown not to have been with the consent or connivance of, or attributable to any negligence on the part of, the earner; and
  2. (b) for treating reserve scheme contributions wrongly paid, or paid as to the wrong amount, as paid (wholly or in part) in discharge of a liability for other reserve scheme contributions or for basic scheme contributions, or for a reserve scheme premium."

No. 67, in page 107, line 46, at end insert: and in its application to Northern Ireland, the reference to a person's bankruptcy includes the vesting of a person's estate and effects in the official assignee under section 349 of the Irish Bankrupt and Insolvent Act 1857". No. 68, in page 108, line 2, leave out "shall" and insert: as they apply to Great Britain shall, for the whole of the United Kingdom".

No. 71, in page 110, line 11, at end insert: (2A) In subsections (1) and (2) above, as they apply to Northern Ireland and questions arising there, the Northern Ireland Ministry shall be substituted for the Secretary of State.

No. 72, in line 22, leave out from "Act" to end of line 24 and insert: or the corresponding Northern Ireland legislation: and the said Part IV or that legislation, as the case may be, shall then apply as if it were such a question as is referred to in section 80(5) of this Act.

No. 73, in line 30, leave out from "Act" to end of line 33, and insert: or the corresponding Northern Ireland legislation; and any question so prescribed shall in accordance with the regulations be so referred, and the said Part IV or that legislation, as the case may be, shall then apply as if it were such a question as is referred to in section 80(5) of this Act.

No. 74, in page 111, line 12, leave out "High Court" and insert: court. (IA) In this section "the court" means—

  1. (a) in England and Wales, the High Court;
  2. (b) in Scotland, the Court of Session; and
  3. (c) in Northern Ireland, the Court of Appeal in Northern Ireland."

No. 75, in line 15, leave out "High".

No. 76, in line 32, leave out "High".

No. 77, in line 33, leave out "High".

No. 78, in line 36, after "court" insert: or by rules made under section 7 of the Northern Ireland Act 1962".

No. 79, in line 37, leave out "High".

No. 80, in page 112, line 2, leave out "High".

No. 81, in line 4, after "costs "insert "or in Scotland, the expenses".

No. 82, in line 11, leave out subsection (9).

No. 87, in page 113, line 46, at end insert: or the corresponding Northern Ireland legislation".

No. 93, in page 122, line 23, leave out Clause 91 and insert the following new Clause (Further provisions as to Northern Ireland)— 91.—(I) Subject to the following provisions of this section, Parts II and III of this Act, and this Part, extend to Northern Ireland. (2) The following provisions of this Part of this Act, namely—

  1. (a) sections 80(1) to (5), 84, 88, 90(1) to (8) (10) and (11) and 93;
  2. (b) Schedule 20, paragraphs 1 to 6, 12 to 13A, and Schedules 21 and 23; and
  3. (c) any provision applying for the interpretation of those sections and Schedules,
extend to Northern Ireland with the adaptations set out in Part I of Schedule 22 (Adaptation of certain provisions of Part IV for Northern Ireland) to this Act. (3) The following provisions of this Part of this Act do not extend to Northern Ireland, namely-
  1. (a) sections 80(6), 83, 87, 90(9) and 95;
  2. (b) Schedule 19 and paragraphs 8 to 10A of Schedule 20; and
  3. (b) Schedule 19 and paragraphs 8 to 10A of Schedule 20; effect for the amendment and repeal of enactments not extending to Northern Ireland.
(4) The provisions of Parts II, III and IV of Schedule 22 to this Act (being provisions which correspond to, or replace, certain of those excluded by subsection (3) above or supplement those of section (94) extend to, Northern Ireland only. (5) The power of the Parliament of Northern Ireland to make laws shall include power to enact legislation corresponding to any provision of this Act, except sections 39(2) to (4) and 42(2); and this Act shall, so far as it relates to matters in respect of which that Parliament has power to make laws, be deemed for the purposes of section 6 of the Government of Ireland Act 1920 to have been passed before the day referred to in that section as the appointed day.

No. 94, page 123, line 24, leave out Clause 92.

No. 95, in page 126, line 21, leave out "48 and 92" and insert "(The basic scheme in Northern Ireland) and 48".

No. 97, in page 127, line 2, at end insert— (d) regulations or orders made by the Northern Ireland Ministry.

No. 100, in page 129, line 1, at beginning insert: the Joint Authority" means the Authority continued in being by section (The basic scheme in Northern Ireland) (4) of this Act; the Ministry of Finance" means the Ministry of Finance for Northern Ireland; the Northern Ireland Minister" and "the Northern Ireland Ministry"mean respectively the Minister and the Ministry of Health and Social Services for Northern Ireland".

No. 101, in page 129, leave out lines 18 to 20.

No. 103, in line 39, at end insert: (2A) Where any provision of this Act refers to regulations and the authority with power to make them is neither specified nor to be implied from the context, the reference is to regulations made by the Secretary of State except that, in and for any purpose of Part I as it applies to Northern Ireland, it is to regulations made by the Northern Ireland Ministry.

No. 104, in page 129, line 40, after "Act" insert "except section 91(5)".

No. 105, in page 129, line 43, at end insert: (3A) Where a provision of this Act which extends to Northern Ireland contains a reference to a government department and does not expressly or by implication from the context refer only to a department of the Government of the United Kingdom, then in the application of that provision to Northern Ireland the reference is to be taken to be, or to include, (as the context may require) a department of the Government of Northern Ireland.

No. 106, in page 131, line 28, at end insert: and any reference in this Act to an enactment of that Parliament shall include a reference to an enactment re-enacting it with or without modification.

No. 107, in line 28, at end insert: (13A) Any reference in this Act, in relation to any enactment of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, to the corresponding Northern Ireland legislation is a reference to, or to any provision of, an Act of the Parliament of Northern Ireland, or any order made under or having the same effect as such an Act, for the time being in force corresponding to that enactment.

No. 108, in line 33, leave out first "Act" and insert "enactment".

No. 109, in line 36, leave out "Act" and insert "enactment".

No. 110, in line 43, after "1972" insert "and the corresponding Northern Ireland legislation".

No. 111, in page 132, line 3, after "enactments" insert "and Orders".

No. 112, in line 8, after "enactments" insert "and Orders".

No. 114, in line 11, at end insert: (3) Where this Act amends an enactment of the Parliament of Northern Ireland, or an Order made under, or having the same effect as, an enactment of that Parliament, the enactment or Order as amended shall be subject to the Interpretation Act (Northern Ireland) 1954 in the same way as an Act of that Parliament is so subject.

(4) Section 38 of the Interpretation Act 1889 (effect of repeals) shall have the same operation in relation to any repeal by this Act of an enactment of the Parliament of Northern Ireland (or of any provision of an Order made under an enactment of that Parliament) as it has in relation to the repeal of an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, references in that section of the Act of 1889 to Acts and enactments being construed accordingly."

No. 123, in page 163, line 21, after Schedule 12, insert new Schedule A (Adaptation of Part I, and other provisions, for Northern Ireland.

No. 124, in page 163, line 21 at end insert new Schedule B (Constitution, etc., of Joint Authority for Great Britain and Northern Ireland).

No. 168, in page 209, line 21, leave out Schedule 22 and insert new Schedule 22 (Adaptation of certain provisions of Part IV for Northern Ireland).

Mr. Dean

These are all technical amendments relating to Northern Ireland.

Mr. O'Malley

In Committee on this Bill I specifically asked the Government whether they were satisfied with the drafting of the Bill as it affected Northern Ireland and I was told they were satisfied with its draftsmanship. We are now faced with a wodge of amendments affecting Northern Ireland. It may be, as the hon. Gentleman says, that they are drafting amendments, but the Bill was considered for over five months in this House and now returns from another place with the part affecting Northern Ireland virtually redrafted. This kind of thing really will not do. It is a disservice to the House of Commons. It is certainly surprising after the assurance I was given in Committee.

I raised a point of order earlier this evening, Mr. Deputy Speaker, about the large number of Lords amendments being dealt with at very short notice. On Northern Ireland we have a very large number of Lords Amendments. Some three-quarters of an hour ago, your predecessor in the Chair, Mr. Deputy Speaker, said it had not been the practice to issue groupings of amendments coming from another place, but that the complaints we had been making were noted. In view of this large grouping I particularly request that the House is not put in this position again, and that tomorrow, when we discuss the Water Bill, there should be made available to hon. Members a list of the groupings of amendments.

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Miss Harvie Anderson)

The point has already been taken.

Question put and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords Amendments agreed to.

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