HC Deb 16 July 1973 vol 860 cc212-5

Lords Amendment: No. 135, in page 171, line 41, leave out from "assignment" to end of line 42 and insert: of short service benefit, and must not enable such benefit to be surrendered or commuted

Mr. Dean

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.

Mr. Speaker

It will be convenient also to discuss Amendment No. 136, in page 172, line 7, leave out from beginning to "circumstances" in line 11 and insert: (3A) Provision may be made for a member's benefit to be commuted, but only

  1. (a) in a case where he opts (at any time) to commute at or after normal pension age; or
  2. (b) in exceptional circumstances of serious ill-health; or
  3. (c) in such other circumstances as may be prescribed;
and where a scheme provides benefit for a member's widow or dependant, it may provide for commutation by the beneficiary in such".

Mr. Dean

These amendments are designed to remedy an unintentional omission from the Bill. While paragraph 15(3)(d) permits the commutation of a member's short service benefit with his consent, in a few limited circumstances it does not extend to any benefit provided for his widow or dependants on death after retirement. This was not the intention, and Amendment No. 136 permits regulations to prescribe the circumstances in which a widow's or dependant's benefit may be commuted.

Mr. O'Malley

It is sensible to allow through regulations the prescribing of circumstances in which a widow's or dependant's benefits may be commuted—those circumstances are very limited—where the benefits which the widow or dependant would obtain, if they were to be paid on a monthly, weekly or even a quarterly basis, were small. Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that that is the purpose of the amendment? It would not be desirable if substantial benefits were allowed to be commuted by regulation. There is a case to be made out for making such provision for very small benefits.

Mr. Dean

I understand the hon. Gentleman's point. It will be taken fully into account before the regulations are made.

Question put and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords amendment agreed to.

Lords Amendment: No. 137, in page 172, line 19, leave out from beginning to end of line 24 and insert: 16.—(1) Except so far as permitted by this paragraph, and subject to paragraph 17 below, a scheme must not contain any provision for forfeiture of short service benefit. (2) Provision may be made for forfeiture of the whole or part of any short service benefit by reference to an event ".

Mr. Dean

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.

Mr. Speaker

With this amendment it will be convenient also to discuss the following amendments: No. 138, in page 172, line 34, leave out from "bankruptcy" to end of line 35 and insert: or, in the case of benefit for a widow or dependant of the member the beneficiary's bankruptcy". No. 139, in page 173, line 10, leave out paragraph 17 and insert: l7.—(1) No rules must operate so as to deprive a person of short service benefit (whether a member himself, or his widow or a dependant) by reference to—

  1. (a) failure by him or any other person to make a claim for the benefit or for any payment due as benefit; or
  2. (b) failure by him or any other person, at any time after termination of relevant employment, to give any notice, or comply with any formality, required by the scheme as a condition of entitlement.
(2) Sub-paragraph (1)(a) above is not to prevent reliance on any enactment relating to the limitation of actions; and in cases of failure to claim, the scheme may provide for the right to receive any payment to be forfeited in the event of its not being claimed within 6 years of the date on which it became due.

Mr. Dean

Amendments Nos. 138 and 139 extend to the widows and dependants of the short-service member the protection afforded under paragraph 16(3)(b) to the member himself.

Amendment No. 139 extends the circumstances in which schemes are prevented from depriving a beneficiary of his short-service benefit and it also overcomes legal technicalities which might have prevented some schemes from writing off arrears of benefit after six years.

Mr. Meacher

If there is a failure to claim—and as under Amendment No. 137 the most schemes are permitted to do is to write off arrears of benefit after six years—is there a specific requirement on the managers of schemes to inform members that there is a time limit of six years after which their benefit will be written off and they will lose it entirely?

Mr. Dean

I cannot answer that question off the cuff. Rather than give an answer about which I am not sure it would be better if I wrote to the hon. Gentleman.

Question put and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords amendments agreed to.