HC Deb 12 July 1973 vol 859 cc1756-8
5. Mr. Horam

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will establish a comprehensive index of social deprivation for the purposes of disbursing urban aid.

Mr. Lane

In allocating urban aid to particular areas and projects my right hon. Friend takes account of the assessment made by local authorities of their needs and priorities, as well as of national considerations, but he is considering how the system of evaluation can be further improved.

Mr. Horam

I am glad to hear that. Is the Minister aware that considerable concern is being expressed about the way in which urban aid is being dispersed? It appears to many local authorities that this is a very hit-and-miss method. Several years ago there was an attempt by the Home Office to establish an index of social deprivation of the kind for which I am asking, but that work was discontinued. Will the Under-Secretary re-establish this kind of work and give it priority?

Mr. Lane

As I said in my original answer, we are trying to find a more sophisticated method of assessment. It may be that something on the lines the hon. Gentleman suggests will some day be right. I am not at present convinced that it is right. If the hon. Gentleman has any suggestions to make from his own experience in Gateshead, which has had a large amount of urban aid, we shall be glad to consider them. I discuss this matter with local authorities when I go round visiting and we are trying to improve our methods in the light of experience.

14. Mr. Kaufman

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what specific aid he plans to provide for the Ardwick constituency in particular and for the City of Manchester in general, in fulfilment of his responsibilities for coordinating Government aid for deprived urban areas.

Mr. R. Carr

Manchester City Council has submitted a number of schemes in response to the latest urban programme circular, and I hope to announce by the end of September which have been approved. Of the schemes approved in the past for Manchester, 11 can be identified as relating particularly to the Ardwick constituency.

As to the future, I shall be considering with my colleagues how best to coordinate all the relevant programmes designed to help deprived urban areas in order to try to increase their combined effectiveness.

Mr. Kaufman

I thank the Minister for that helpful answer. May I ask him to add to his list of projects for the city of Manchester two in my constituency, which are being starved for lack of funds? One is playground facilities for the Wenlock Way area, where mothers have had to barricade the roads because of the dangers to their children, and the other is benches for old people in the Park Crescent area, an amenity badly needed in that part of Manchester.

Mr. Carr

I note the hon. Gentleman's suggestions and shall consider them. He probably knows that one of the 11 schemes I mentioned was for a playground elsewhere in his constituency, so it will be seen that that sort of project certainly qualifies.

Mr. Charles R. Morris

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that during his recent visit to Manchester—which, coincidentally, was on the day he assumed responsibility for co-ordinating Government aid to deprived urban areas—he commented that human needs seemed to have been forgotten? When considering the schemes he has announced today, will he bear in mind the need for more youth clubs in the Openshaw area?

Mr. Carr

Yes, indeed, Sir. When I see some of the concrete deserts, not only in Manchester, I think they are a disgrace—and I do not care who built them. In future urban development we must pay far more attention to trying not to break up old communities and to meeting the community needs of the new communities in the new development.

Mrs. Shirley Williams

May I press the right hon. Gentleman a little further on the question of the scope of his powers of co-ordination of other Departments? It is becoming increasingly clear that many hon. Members feel that a wide co-ordination is now needed to deal with urban property. In particular, are the right hon. Gentleman's powers such as to suggest that wherever there is a major housing programme provision should be made for such things as facilities for young people, nursery accommodation, and provision for old people within the estates—which can normally be done far less expensively than if they are added on by a departmental budget afterwards?

Mr. Carr

These are early days yet. I must learn to walk before I start to run in this difficult matter. It was just because my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister felt the great importance of bringing these things together that he asked me to act as a co-ordinating Minister.