§ Q5. Mr. Joel Barnettasked the Prime Minister if he will institute an interdepartmental inquiry into the consequences of selective food subsidies.
§ The Prime MinisterAs I have already made clear, the Government have considered this question very carefully. There are overwhelming arguments against any general measures of this kind. But I am always ready to discuss any particular proposal for action on prices.
§ Mr. BarnettDoes the Prime Minister agree with the Chancellor's massive condemnation of food subsidies, which presumably would be endorsed by his hon. and right hon. Friends? If he does, is he really acting in good faith in negotiating with the TUC and telling it that he is prepared to consider food subsidies?
§ The Prime MinisterWhat my right hon. Friend said was that there were certain specific instances of food subsidies that were not only being considered or discussed but had been implemented, and are still being implemented. What he was arguing against was what would undoubtedly be massive and expensive subsidies for particular items that are in short supply in the world.
§ Sir Gilbert LongdenWill my right hon. Friend once again make it clear to the Opposition that if necessities are scarce, and therefore dear, and are artificially made cheaper by State subsidies but are not rationed, those who are rich will get more than those who are poor?
§ The Prime MinisterThat is absolutely true, but it is difficult to get that into their heads.
§ Mr. Elystan MorganWill the Prime Minister give an undertaking that if the floating pound is devalued in the next two months by the same amount as it was devalued in the past two months, namely, 6 per cent., he will give the matter his urgent reconsideration?
§ The Prime MinisterI do not accept the hon. Gentleman's hypothesis. What I said was that if the TUC or the CBI wish to put arguments on any aspect of food prices I am prepared to listen to them.
§ Mr. RedmondDoes my right hon. Friend realise that many of us have no objection whatever to being taxed in order to help those worse off than we are, but that we object very strongly to being taxed to provide cheaper food for wealthy people, like the Leader of the Opposition—to name but a few?
§ The Prime MinisterThat has always been one of the major arguments against food subsidies across the board. It is an argument that the TUC has discussed with us in previous talks, and that it 1778 accepts. It has no desire to see indiscriminate and vast food subsidies given across the board because it knows perfectly well that they can be paid for only out of additional taxation, which is either indirectly putting up prices or directly cutting back the pay packet.
§ Mr. ThorpeAs the cost of food has increased by 35 per cent. since the Government took office, and as the right hon. Gentleman thinks that what the Labour Government did, compared with the Tory Government, is producing dividends to the Tory Party of only three-figure votes at by-elections, will he tell us whether, when he meets the TUC—[Interruption.] I am sorry that the Prime Minister has difficulty in hearing me because of the wild men behind him. I shall try to speak louder. Will he confirm that when he meets the TUC and the CBI at the end of the month he will be fully briefed from the "think tank", or such other sources as he draws upon, about the possibility of extending the credit income tax system to cover both housing and rates, the possibility of guaranteed minimum earnings, threshold agreements and, last but not least, implementing—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The House has a great deal of business to do today. It will do it better with less noise and, perhaps, more brevity.
§ Mr. Thorpe—and, last but not least, implementing the Tory Party's promise that it would increase family allowances? Will the right hon. Gentleman give an undertaking that he will put all those forward in the talks at the end of this month?
§ The Prime MinisterAt previous meetings with the TUC we have discussed these matters—the question of a minimum incomes policy, thresholds and family allowances—as well as the general situation of earnings and prices. As I have told the House before, both the CBI and the TUC said that they wished to do further work on these matters before our next meetings. We shall be able to consider the results at the next meetings on 27th and 30th July.
§ Mr. Harold WilsonWhy does the right hon. Gentleman refuse to provide money to keep prices down when, under the terms he negotiated with the Common Market, he must pay hundreds of millions 1779 of pounds of housewives' money to keep prices up in Europe? Is he prepared to accept the payment of a further £30 million fine from the taxpayers and housewives of this country in order to maintain the butter mountain?
§ The Prime MinisterThe world prices of most commodities that we receive from the European Community are already higher than the intervention prices for the Community. Therefore, the problem that the right hon. Gentleman continually imagines does not arise.
§ Mr. WilsonDoes the Prime Minister accept or repudiate the estimate of £500 million given to the Lobby journalists by the then Minister for Europe two years ago?
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that what he has said is untrue and that the figures of hundreds of millions which are constantly mentioned by him and the right hon. Member for Battersea, North (Mr. Jay) bear no relationship to the truth.