HC Deb 12 July 1973 vol 859 cc1762-4
10. Mr. Fowler

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will make a statement on the length of time spent at allocation centres by young offenders under borstal sentence indicating how many, during the last year, have spent over one month awaiting allocation.

Mr. Carlisle

Most young men sentenced to borstal training in England and Wales spend two or three weeks at an allocation centre. I regret that the information requested in the second part of the Question is not readily available and could not be obtained without disproportionate cost.

Mr. Fowler

That is a pity, because one young offender from Nottingham spent six weeks at an allocation centre awaiting allocation to borstal. Is not the most unsatisfactory feature of these allocation centres that they are within the walls of two prisons—Wormwood Scrubs and Strangeways Prison, Manchester, which were built in the last century? When can we afford proper allocation centres?

Mr. Carlisle

I cannot provide the answer in the form requested, but I can state that on 3rd July this year only 19 offenders in allocation centres had been there for more than one month. In the middle of 1970 the average period spent there was four months before being sent to borstal, and I hope that my hon. Friend will agree that this represents a great improvement. I accept what he says about allocation centres within existing prisons. They are in separate wings of the prisons. No doubt my hon. Friend will be aware of the two new purpose-built remand and assessment centres now being built at Glen Parva. in Leicestershire, and Feltham.

Mrs. Shirley Williams

In view of the high recidivism rate in borstals, the encouraging reports in the newspaper this morning about community service orders for young offenders, and the encouraging reports from two borstals that are deeply involved in community service projects, will the hon. and learned Gentleman consider giving to these projects, which have had such an encouraging effect both within and outside borstal, greater priority over the rules that applied in the past, which may no longer be appropriate?

Mr. Carlisle

I am grateful for what the hon. Member has said, and I welcome her comments about the community service order. The Government are anxious to expand the experiment to other areas of the country as soon as possible and we hope that the new powers for the courts will be used. I am aware of the hon. Lady's comments about the two borstals, and here again there is encouraging evidence. We are anxious to expand all we can in dealing with more offenders in the community, and it is at that that a large part of our policies are aimed.

Mr. Grieve

Does my hon. and learned Friend accept that the rate of recidivism in borstals is high, as the hon. Member for Hitchin (Mrs. Shirley Williams) has said? Will he give the present rate? Is it not the case, in view of the frequent use of borstal as a last resort in dealing with young offenders, that the rate of those who do not return is considerable?

Mr. Carlisle

I do not have the figures that would answer my hon. and learned Friend's question. Regrettably, I have to accept what the hon. Member for Hitchin (Mrs. Shirley Williams) said. The rate of recidivism is higher than we would wish, but we are involved here with more intractable cases, and therefore any success at non-recidivism at this stage is a success that has not been achieved at some earlier stage in the penal system.