HC Deb 10 July 1973 vol 859 cc1250-3
Q1. Mr. Meacher

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his latest talks with the TUC and the CBI.

Q8. Mr. Adley

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his latest meeting with the TUC and CBI.

Q9. Mr. Duffy

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his latest talks with the TUC and CBI on phase 3 of the Government's anti-inflation policy.

The Prime Minister (Mr. Edward Heath)

I refer the hon. Members and my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Conway (Mr. Wyn Roberts) on 3rd July.—[Vol. 859, c. 246–9.] Further meetings have now been arranged with the TUC on 27th July and with the CBI on 30th July.

Mr. Meacher

Since the Prime Minister is so fond of telling the TUC about the so-called fairness of his policy, will he explain what is fair about the fact that wages this year are subject to the average phase 2 ceiling of 7 per cent. while prices are 10 per cent. higher than a year ago and profits, according to Exchange Telegraph, are 19 per cent. higher than a year ago and rising fast? What is fair about the fact that the only thing rising faster than profits is the price of food?

The Prime Minister

The hon. Gentle. man is referring to the situation a year ago. The latest figures of earnings, which are those for April, show an increase of 13.3 per cent. over the previous year, whereas the increase in the retail price index is only 9.2 per cent.

Mr. Adley

Is not the hon. Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Meacher), as usual, simultaneously crying crocodile tears and talking arrant nonsense? Does not my right hon. Friend agree that in the first quarter of 1973 compared with the first quarter of 1972 expenditure on clothing went up by 15 per cent., expenditure on wines and spirits went up by 15 per cent., expenditure on motor cars went up by 35 per cent., and expenditure on radio and electrical goods went up by 22 per cent.? If that is not a sufficient indication of our increasing prosperity, perhaps my right hon. Friend can tell us the percentage of personal disposable income that people are saving now compared with the position in 1970.

The Prime Minister

I cannot comment on the individual figures that my hon. Friend has produced, but as regards real personal disposable income the contrast between the last quarter of 1972 and the first quarter of 1973 shows an increase of 2.1 per cent.

Mr. Duffy

Did the Prime Minister see the reported complaint in the Sunday Telegraph by members of the Price Commission that some industrialists had conned them that the price code was working for them and that they had not realised how cunning and ruthless some businessmen could be? Does not the Prime Minister think that the price code must be revised and tightened up before phase 3?

The Prime Minister

I read those comments, and I also read the comment of a member of the Price Commission who was being interviewed to the effect that the commission was determined to be just as tough as any businessman appearing before it. I think that indicates that the commission itself is prepared to deal with prices in a tough manner. The commission has approved in full only one-third of the applications with which it has dealt. Nearly two-thirds have been rejected, approved after a reduction or withdrawn.

Mr. Tom King

Are not the situations in world commodity prices and in the pound sterling two vital factors in concentrating the minds of the Government, the TUC and the CBI at the forthcoming talks on the vital necessity in the national interest to make every effort to speak as one nation and not to continue a partisan battle which in the end could jeopardise the standard of living of everyone in the country?

The Prime Minister

I agree with my hon. Friend. That was the view taken by both the CBI and the TUC in the first meeting that we had in this series. That was why they agreed to the programme of work which is now in hand, and it is why we shall meet again on 27th July with the TUC and on 30th July with the CBI.

Mr. Harold Wilson

When the right hon. Gentleman sought to avoid answering a question last week about prices and incomes in the freeze, was he not aware that the CSO was about to publish the following day the figures for the freeze period, in which real disposable incomes showed no change between the last quarter of 1972 and the first quarter of 1973 even though the fourth quarter of 1972 included two freeze months? Is the Prime Minister aware that such increase in expenditure that there was was accounted for by dissavings? Is he aware further that, on his own figures, for which he must take responsibility, nearly half of even the maintenance of real disposable income was accounted for by increased dividends? How can the right hon. Gentleman now justify misleading the House last week? Did he have the figures, did he not know them, or did he conceal them?

The Prime Minister

There was no misleading of the House last week, and I did not conceal any figures. The right hon. Gentleman knows that when figures are to be published by the Statistical Office no Minister at this Box gives any figures in advance because the day is notified in advance to the whole country. As a former Prime Minister, he knows that perfectly well.

Mr. Wilson

Does the right hon. Gentleman confirm the question that I have just put to him about the CSO? Did he know these figures? In that case, why did he give so grossly misleading an answer to the House?

The Prime Minister

There was absolutely nothing misleading about the answer I gave to the House.