HC Deb 10 July 1973 vol 859 cc1247-9
14. Mr. Hugh Jenkins

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what is the maximum penalty for breach of the safety provisions of the Construction Regulations 1961 resulting in the death of workpeople.

Mr. Dudley Smith

A fine of £300. The Government have recently issued proposals for legislation on safety and health at work that suggest substantially higher penalties.

Mr. Jenkins

Does the hon. Gentleman recall that in the case of a collapse of a bridge over the M4 last year, resulting in the death of three men, for which the firm concerned admitted responsibility the total fine was £150? Is not it clear that the recommendations which the Government propose to bring forward are urgent? Will the hon. Gentleman be placing legislation before the House in the immediate future?

Mr. Smith

It would be improper for me to comment on the judicial decision in a specific case. But I agree that the present penalties are unsatisfactory, and that is one of the reasons why we are proposing to tackle them. Where an offence is tried on indictment, we propose an unlimited fine. It will be open to factory inspectors to seek trial on indictment if it is considered that the offence warrants it. Here again we are making good progress.

Mr. Marten

Are there not already powers to prohibit work until conditions are safe, and should not these powers be used more frequently?

Mr. Smith

Again this is a matter of judgment. It happens from time to time. My hon. Friend will be pleased to know that the factory inspectors will have very much wider powers over enforcement under the proposed legislation on Robens, if the House approves it.

Mr. Rose

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that penalties for offences of this kind, like those in the Factories Act, are ludicrous? Is he aware, for example, that the loss of a finger due to the absence of a guard recently incurred the ludicrous penalty of £50? Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that, in addition to very stiff fines, we must have the equivalent in industry of what we have in road safety, namely disqualification, and that drastic measures are needed if employers are to fall into line?

Mr. Smith

I said that the present penalties were unsatisfactory. That is why these proposals are being brought forward. Any further sanctions are matters for debate when the proposals for new penalties come forward. They can be examined at the right time and place.