HC Deb 06 July 1973 vol 859 cc892-912

Order for Second Reading read.

11.7 a.m.

The Under-Secretary of State for Defence for the Army (Mr. Peter Blaker)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

The Bill is simple in its purpose and I trust that my speech will also be simple. What I am asking the House to agree to do is to allow the recruitment of women to the Ulster Defence Regiment.

In these enlightened days it may seem odd that a Bill is needed to remove this measure of apparent discrimination, but in the very different circumstances of 1969 the Ulster Defence Regiment Act, which set up the regiment following the Hunt Inquiry, specially excluded women.

At that time, no operational need to employ women in the regiment was foreseen. I am sure that the House will agree that the establishment of the regiment—the newest regiment in the British Army—and its success in contributing to the support of the security forces have been one of the more satisfactory features of the Northern Ireland scene during these past three years. Nevertheless, it is now clear that the exclusion of women from the regiment is a disadvantage.

There is certainly a place for them in the regiment, and if Parliament approves the Bill we shall be able to take them on. The immediate need is for women searchers to help the Ulster Defence Regiment battalions when conducting checks on people who might be carrying explosives or other arms. Since only women should search women, and we do not have enough members of the Women's Royal Army Corps or the RUC, there is a gap in our security arrangements. The object of the Bill is to enable us to close the gap.

The House needs no reminding of the acts of terrorism in Northern Ireland, but in support of the Bill I add that there is considerable evidence that women are actively engaged in such acts. They have planted bombs and have been involved in hijacking and armed robberies. Women are also known to have acted as couriers and weapon carriers for male terrorists, for example, under the guise of travelling from the South to Belfast by train for shopping. They have also been used by the Provisional IRA to plant bombs in selected targets, for example, bombs have been planted in railway stations and shops by women who have concealed the explosives on their bodies on the pretence of being pregnant.

The security forces make every effort to bring offenders to justice, and since Operation Motorman, last summer, 66 women have been charged with terrorist offences and 19 have been convicted. Four women have been served with interim custody orders and three have been detained following examination by the commissioners under the terms of the Detention of Terrorists (Northern Ireland) Order 1970.

The House will also be aware of the part played by women in luring three British soldiers to their deaths at the hands of terrorists on 23rd March. All of this, I suggest, is ample evidence of the need to strengthen the security forces in the way which will be possible when this Bill becomes law. We hope that 700 women can be recruited into the UDR to undertake these search duties. The Bill will, however, also allow us to engage other women members for other types of duty if we so wish, for example, as clerks, telephone or radio operators, and so on, thus freeing men for operational duties.

The recruitment of women will not require any amendment to the present limit of 10,000 prescribed in the Ministry of Defence Vote A (Army). Women who join the regiment will do so on the same basis as men, although they will be paid women's rates. They will primarily be recruited for part-time service, but with a liability to serve on a full-time basis during times of emergency. They will be subject to the same vetting arrangement as men applying to join the regiment.

So much for the first two subsections of Clause 1. Clause 1(3) extends to women in the UDR the advantages already given to men in the regiment—as to other Service men and women in Her Majesty's forces—by the Disabled Persons Employment Acts. These Acts provide that disabled persons who have served whole-time in the Armed Forces should he given preferential treatment for vocational training, industrial rehabilitation and assistance towards employment.

This House has frequently discussed the fortunes of the regiment since it was first formed in 1970. On all sides there has been unstinted praise for the untiring and devoted service given by members of the regiment towards maintaining security. The Bill offers similar opportunities to women in Northern Ireland to undertake duties for which they are undoubtedly needed. I ask the House to support it wholeheartedly.

11.12 a.m.

Mr. Fred Peart (Workington)

The Opposition support the Bill. There is agreement on all sides that the regiment has played its part in restoring law and order. However, it is a tragedy that this step is necessary. The figures given by the Minister show that, unfortunately, women are actively engaged in terrorist activity in Northern Ireland. The figures show that 66 women were charged and 19 convicted in a limited period. That is a sad reflection on what has happened. We trust that one day, through the efforts of people in the Ulster Defence Regiment and our Armed Forces, we shall have law and order completely restored to this part of the world.

I am sure no one would deny that this is a necessary measure. Many of us remember that during the last war our women made a major contribution in the Services, and I see no reason why this little bit of discrimination should not now be removed.

The Minister said that the Bill was simple in its purpose. It is to allow the recruitment of women. He also mentioned the figure of 700 women, and I was rather surprised to see in the Explanatory and Financial Memorandum that One additional civilian will be employed on account of the increase in work due to the recruitment of women into the Regiment. This is not a realistic figure. I am certain that experience will show that we shall need more than one civilian to help out.

What more can be said? The Bill is necessary. We believe in the establishment of law and order. The regiment is the youngest in the Army and has a fine record. We wish it luck. The women who will make their contribution will be helping us all.

11.15 a.m.

Captain L. P. S. Orr (Down, South)

The right hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Peart) asked "What more can one say?" Under the rules of order it would be possible to have a wide-ranging and substantial debate about internal security in Northern Ireland and the rôle which the Ulster Defence Regiment plays, or ought to play. I do not think that this ought to be the occasion for that kind of debate, but I put on record that there is a distinct need for such a debate in the near future. In the light of all the matters we have been discussing this week I believe it will be generally acknowledged that we shall have to look again, and very soon, at the methods to be employed for reducing the military commitment if we can get any kind of settlement.

This debate is useful for enabling us to put on record the intense admiration that we all have for the work of the men of the Ulster Defence Regiment. It may not always be appreciated in the calm and quiet atmosphere of this House just what kind of task these men have to perform. We greatly admire the work of the soldiers too, but in the end the Regular soldier, if he survives, and the vast majority do, returns to his home somewhere other than Northern Ireland. The members of the Ulster Defence Regiment live there among the community. They become marked men, marked by those who admire them as doing an heroic job in the defence and the security of their native land, but also marked by their enemies.

The casualties suffered by the regiment so far show that. The member of the regiment goes to his home every night, which can sometimes be in remote parts of the Province. What we owe to the members of the regiment is almost incalculable. We are now proposing to introduce women to the regiment. That is right and proper. All of us welcome the Bill.

Perhaps I may ask my hon. Friend a few questions. Can he tell us the present strength of the UDR? The latest figures I have are those of 24th January, which show that the strength was 352 officers and 8,524 soldiers. It would be interesting to know the up-to-date figures and whether, in the light of casualties and so on, recruitment is being maintained at a desirable level.

I do not believe that my hon. Friend said anything about whether there would be an officer structure for women. It would be helpful to know how the women's section will be operated. My hon. Friend said they will be used for searching women suspected of being terrorists. Can he say a little more about whether they will be employed on road patrols? Will they go out with local platoons and sections, and, if so, what protective measures will be taken? Will they be trained in the use of self-defence and will they be armed? I understand that my hon. Friend the Member for Ormskirk (Mr. Soref) will develop this question.

In another place Lord Carrington said on Second Reading: I cannot bring myself to believe that even those who are murdering British soldiers and members of the UDR and RUC in Northern Ireland will bring themselves to murder women of the UDR."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, House of Lords, 11th June 1973; Vol. 343, c. 386.] I cannot share his view. Any one who has watched the indiscriminate destruction of the lives of innocent women and children in Ulster as a result of bombs callously and casually thrown without regard for human life could not possibly believe that the people who are brutally murdering UDR men will scruple to murder UDR women if they feel that it is in their interest to do so. I hope that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State will make a better case for the non-arming of UDR women.

I could develop and sustain a long debate on the general subject of the employment of the UDR, but I will content myself with saying that we welcome the Bill and hope that the recruitment of women will go ahead and that the women will be available to do the job. We wish them well in the job they are being called upon to do.

11.22 a.m.

Mr. Harold Soref (Ormskirk)

I believe that this Bill is long overdue. The Ulster Defence Regiment Act 1969 failed to foresee the operational necessity of employing women. As I see it, this epitomises and underlines so much that has happened in the tragic history of Ulster, with the wishful thinking and baseless optimism which have characterised the murderous struggle.

In that context, I agree with the characteristically courageous words of the hon. and learned Member for Northampton (Mr. Paget) yesterday. We are in the throes of a struggle with an armed and international conspiracy which virtually seeks to create a Cuba-type republic on our own doorstep. It is the greatest threat that our nation has faced since Hitler.

One cannot exaggerate the threat which confronts this country and Ulster. The situation is so serious that there is no possible enormity, no killing, no murder, and no torture that hon. Members could be surprised at reading about this afternoon or tomorrow. We are almost immunised against the horror because of its frequency.

It is the intention of the IRA, both Provisional and Official, with the support that these groups receive from Communist countries, to pose a direct threat to the United Kingdom. An essential by-product of the IRA's activities is to lower the effectiveness of the Rhine Army and tie down a large part of the United Kingdom's mobile forces.

In the light of the violence, murders and bombings that have taken place, I believe that it was a cardinal error to abolish the "B" Specials. It had 11,500 men, with a superb intelligence service, and it is significant that it was a Liberal Prime Minister who, in 1920, knew what he was doing when he established that force. It was a mistake also to disarm the Royal Ulster Constabulary—for that we are paying the price. Hon. Members who have spoken have praised rightly the activities of the Ulster Defence Regiment, which has largely replaced the "B" Specials.

It is worth considering that the total complement of Ulster Defence Regiment plus the RUC at the moment is rather less than the number of police engaged in London defending the American Embassy at the time of the attack by anti-Vietnam war demonstrators. Ten thousand police were used in London for that relatively simple task. It illustrates the enormity of what is going on in Ulster and the under-strength situation of the defence forces. I endorse the words of the right hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Peart), that the added force of women is likely to prove totally inadequate for the task.

Mr. Peart

I was arguing about civilian personnel. I thought that one civilian was unrealistic, but I accept the general force.

Mr. Soref

It is my view that this force, like the total forces in Ulster, will be found to be inadequate, particularly when one considers the endurance and hardships and the provocation facing members of the Ulster Defence Regiment. My hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Down, South (Captain Orr) has indicated the trials and tribulations of these people. They have other jobs, and are a constant prey to those wild men who will stop at nothing. I have a strong feeling that the women who will be their comrades in the near future will be no less a prey.

The Ulster Defence Regiment, like Cromwell's New Model Army, "knows what it is fighting for and loves what it knows", the only difference being that it is not provided with the opportunities that it would seek of fighting back as much as it would wish. In the view of my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Down, South, we shall need at some stage to consider the future of this regiment. It may be necessary to develop it into an anti-guerrilla intelligence force or into riot police. That necessity exists because there is a vacuum in that area in Northern Ireland.

Thirty-four members of the regiment have been killed. However, to my surprise I find that there is no division of the figures of those who have been injured. It appears that of the 1,298 Army and UDR members reported to have been injured, there is no clear demarcation. One does not know how many UDR men have been injured. These are people who have been assassinated and ambushed in their homes. Not only do they need protection themselves but their women colleagues will be in even greater need of protection because they also will be in uniform and identifiable. They, too, will be a ready target for the IRA.

The whole of the Ulster Defence Regiment not only suffers many of the disadvantages afflicting members of the Regular Armed Forces, but is confronted with additional problems. Unlike the Regular Army, its members can never take the initiative; they are a prey in front of their own homes and families. They live with their families, not in barracks, and are on duty after a day's work. They have no identifiable termination of their tour of duty. It is open-ended, unlike that of members of the Regular Forces serving in Ireland. They are an easy prey to the assassin's bullet

It is inevitable that there will be an intensification of the campaign of violence and intimidation in Northern Ireland, which certain foreign countries and the international guerrilla movement will promote. There will be additional Russian automatic weapons readily available. Therefore, one has to consider whether women should be able to bear arms and be trained in their use.

There is a great deal to be learnt from the recent experiences of the Israeli Army, in which women play a necessary and vital rôle, particularly in fighting guerrillas. The women recruits in Northern Ireland will shortly and inevitably be subjected to the most foul barbarism. They should, therefore, be protected in advance, and I ask my hon. Friend to consider this.

I strongly agree with what my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Down, South said about promotion to the commissioned ranks. Will there be equality in the pay, pensions and conditions of the women volunteers?

The women are in a vulnerable position. This is the first war—and it is a war—in which traitors are not shot and in which forms of activity not accepted by the Geneva Convention are perpetrated by those who claim to be members, of an army fighting the legal forces. This position is exaggerated by the fact that undue concern is shown for what is called world opinion, which is a spurious and selective display more often of immoral than of moral standards. More concern should be shown for public opinion in Britain, which seeks to end this campaign of murder and destruction. This can be achieved only by ruthless action against those who are prepared to destroy our society.

11.32 a.m.

Mr. Ernest G. Perry (Battersea, South)

I fully support the Minister in bringing forward this measure. As a back bencher and an Englishman, I always feel reluctant to intervene in debates on Northern Ireland. I am reluctant to stick my snoot in, but I feel I must do so on this occasion.

We are not here discussing guerrillas in Vietnam or the works of the Rhine Army. The hon. Member for Orsmkirk (Mr. Soref) referred to women in the Israeli Army bearing arms. That is nothing new. I remind him that during the last war, long before the Israeli Army came into existence, women fought as guerrillas in all the Nazi-occupied territories, including Yugoslavia, France, Italy, Poland and Romania. In every one of the countries occupied by the Nazis, women played their part in organising, fighting and bearing arms.

In Britain in the last war young ladies were employed in the Armed Forces on anti-aircraft guns locating aircraft. They were just as responsible for shooting down German aircraft as were the chaps who, put the shells in the Bofors guns. The idea of women bearing arms and fighting is not new.

The Ulster Defence Regiment is not like Cromwell's army. Cromwell's army was of a particular faith, whereas the Ulster Defence Regiment is open to anyone, and that is its greatest asset.

Mr. Soref

I was referring to Cromwell's New Model Army, which was not based on a single faith. I was not referring to Cromwell's army in Ireland.

Mr. Perry

The hon. Gentleman referred to Cromwell's army and compared it with the Ulster Defence Regiment.

Mr. Soref

I referred to Cromwell's New Model Army.

Mr. Perry

The Ulster Defence Regiment is open to anyone who wishes to serve the cause of peace and law and order.

The hon. and gallant Member for Down, South (Captain Orr) in referring to the present recruitment into the UDR said that there were 342 officers and 8,000 soldiers. I remind him that there are not only officers; there are warrant officers, senior and junior NCOs and privates. In differentiating between officers and other ranks the hon. and gallant Gentleman might mention the senior and junior NCOs and the warrant officers.

11.35 a.m.

Mr. James Kilfedder (Down, North)

The hon. Member for Battersea, South (Mr. Perry) said that as an Englishman he felt reluctant to take part in debates on Northern Ireland. I assure him that hon. Members representing Northern Ireland constituencies welcome hon. Members representing constituencies in Great Britain taking part in debates on the problems in the Province. Indeed, we should be glad to welcome them on visits to Northern Ireland to help them to understand better what is happening over there. I know that the hon. Member for Battersea, South approaches every problem with an open mind and with great reasonableness.

I reiterate what the hon. Gentleman said about the Ulster Defence Regiment being open to anyone who wishes to serve the cause of law and order. I hope that there will be a ready response to this new venture of opening the UDR to women, but I feel that the Government have set too low a ceiling on the number. Women suffer from the hardships of a terrorist campaign more than do men, and I am sure that many women would be prepared to serve Northern Ireland.

The hon. Gentleman castigated my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Down, South (Captain Orr) for referring only to officers and men. I am a military expert, having served in the Territorial Army Intelligence Corps and risen to the rank of corporal! I feel not only that I should be congratulated on that promotion but that I am entitled to speak for all persons in the UDR up to the rank of officer. I understand the hon. Gentleman's concern.

I advocated this measure some time ago. I am sorry that there are not more members in the UDR and that the Government will not create local platoons. I add my own tribute to those already paid to the regiment. It plays a courageous and valuable rôle in Northern Ireland.

I regret that the members of the regiment, when mobilised, are financially penalised by their employers, including the Post Office, which is a semi-Government concern. That is wrong. I hope that this mean treatment will not be extended to women who volunteer and that when the Government review the situation all members of the regiment in employment will have their pay made up.

Apart from women members of the UDR being used to search women and so relieve the burden on the women military police, they could play many other active roles in manning road blocks and doing security checks all along the border. The border is still wide open. No matter what may be stated in Press releases from the Eire Government and by their Prime Minister, there is still little response from the Eire Government to the threat posed by the IRA, which is using the Irish Republic as a sanctuary.

We all recognise the difficulty of patrolling a border with a land frontier of 300 miles. It is a difficult task for the Army. I have advocated to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland that radar should he used and that more helicopters should be brought into play. This addition to the strength of the security forces, if used in border areas, should help to close some of the gaps in the existing security arrangements. We shall never get peace in Northern Ireland, we shall never defeat the terrorists—the gunmen who cross the border into Northern Ireland, carry out their obscene killings and then return across the border into the Irish Republic—until strong measures are taken against the IRA.

At the time the Bill was first published I expressed the hope that women members of the UDR would be armed. I am saying not merely that they should have personal arms for their own protection—because we know that ordinary members of the UDR are subject to threats of all kinds, and figures have been given of the numbers of UDR members who have been murdered by the IRA—but that the Minister should make sure that the women members of the UDR are given full military training, including training in the use of arms.

It is no use saying that we should not arm the women members of the UDR, and that if they are not armed they will not be attacked. As my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Down, South said, the IRA has already committed some heinous offences against women, and once they are dressed up in military uniform they will be the target for the IRA and will need to be given every possible protection.

Finally, I think that women members of the UDR could take over from the police and soldiers when children are being harassed by IRA terrorists, and indeed, when the Army and police all too frequently are being attacked by children provoked into such action by the IRA. The presence of women members of the UDR might help to pacify the children in a difficult and trying situation in the Province. A number of police and members of the security forces have been killed when engaged on the "lollipop patrol", as it is called. It is possible that women properly protected and properly armed could play a useful rôle.

I welcome this measure. It is a necessary piece of legislation, and I hope that there will be a quick response and that it will act as an incentive—I hope that this is not misunderstood—to other people to join the Ulster Defence Regiment.

11.44 a.m.

Mr. Stanley R. McMaster (Belfast, East)

I should like to say how pleased I am to see present today and taking part in the debate my hon. Friend the Member for Ormskirk (Mr. Soref) and the hon. Member for Battersea, South (Mr. Ernest G. Perry). This is an important subject for Northern Ireland. There are some in this House who, when Stormont was suspended. felt that total integration and the winding up of the Northern Ireland Parliament would help to achieve a settlement in Northern Ireland. But the attendance in the House today shows how few of our colleagues among the United Kingdom Members are concerned with affairs of Northern Ireland and prepared to come and debate the matter. They feel strangers in these matters.

For this reason, I was opposed to the prorogation of Northern Ireland Parliament, and I am glad to see the Assembly reformed. In the context of this Bill I would like to see the control of the UDR vested in Northern Ireland where the control of the old "B" Specials lay. I feel that the best use can be made of the new women recruits to the Ulster Defence Regiment.

I wish to criticise what was said in another place by the Secretary of State for Defence when dealing with the likelihood of attacks on women members of the Ulster Defence Regiment. It shows how little he understands the position in Northern Ireland when one considers the number of women from Republican areas who have been viciously attacked, covered with paint and had their heads shaved because they have committed minor indiscretions. The Provisional IRA does not draw the line in attacking women and children. Within the last 24 hours a woman has been killed in crossfire in Northern Ireland. That was an attack launched by the IRA on the Army quite regardless of the safety of others and, as a result, a woman living in a Republican area lost her life. There have been many such cases in Northern Ireland.

I join with my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Down, South (Capt. Orr) in praising the work of the UDR. I ask my hon. Friend what the rôle of the women will be. When the regiment was formed it was suggested that their rôle should be simply to guard vulnerable points in the Province. Are these women to carry out searches on the border, or will they be used in sit-ins, to protect the centres of cities and to search persons suspected of carrying arms? Many bombs have been placed by women terrorists. About a year ago two women left a parcel on the doorstep of Unionist headquarters and that bomb caused severe damage. It is obvious that women and, indeed, children are being used by the IRA to place these bombs.

The rôle of the women in the UDR is important, but I suggest that it is a rôle more akin to supporting the police than part of a defence regiment controlled by the GOC. If the rôle is a supporting rôle for the police, surely this underlines the point made in passing by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Down, South that the entire function of the UDR is more that of militia support for the police in Northern Ireland than of a regiment of the Army, whose rôle in ordinary times—and I hope that we shall return to peace in Northern Ireland—is more confined to garrison duties and protecting the border.

I ask my hon. Friend what the precise rôle of these women is to be. I endorse what my colleagues have said in this debate about protection of these women. If their rôle is to be primarily in the country areas and they are to be recruited strongly from those areas, the question arises of the steps that should be taken to protect them. We in Northern Ireland are well aware of those gallant members of the Ulster Defence Regiment living in remote areas who have been attacked in their homes, when going to work or when ploughing their fields. They have no means of defending themselves. A number have been deliberately assassinated. Should women be asked to take on this rôle without some form of weapon training'? It is inconceivable that each woman should be protected by an armed guard. They must be in a position to defend themselves.

The hon. Member for Battersea, South drew attention to the fact that members of the UDR are drawn from people of every religion and section of the community. In case there is any implication that members of the old "B" Specials were not, let me remind the hon. Gentleman that the position was exactly the same. It is true that there was a very small minority recruitment to the "B" Specials, but that was more the fault of the minority deciding not to come forward. In that connection, perhaps my hon. Friend can say what is the present recruitment position. The UDR was set up to be a broadly-based body. It is a matter of regret that so few members of the minority have come forward. However, perhaps that is understandable when one considers the polarisation everywhere in Northern Ireland——

Mr. Kilfedder

My hon. Friend will probably agree that on one occasion about a year ago a member of the SDLP was telling the minority not to join the regiment. This is a matter that we all deprecate.

Mr. McMaster

My hon. Friend is advancing my argument. I was about to say that I hope that a fair proportion from the minority will join. However, because of the polarisation, women living in Republican areas will be subject to great pressures. Therefore, we must see, first, that proper measures are taken to protect any who come forward and, secondly—as my hon. Friend the Member for Ormskirk said—that they are adequately remunerated for the onerous job that they take on, including the risk element, if they have the courage to join the regiment.

There has been some feeling in Northern Ireland—especially over the election period when members of the regiment have been on duty for long hours—about the fact that they have lost their pay from their civilian jobs and have not been adequately recompensed by their pay from the regiment. These are part-time soldiers, and they must be adequately remunerated.

Recruitment has fallen sadly recently because of redundancies. At a time like this, when, in the past day or two, we have seen riots in our prisons and bomb attacks and riots in Londonderry and Belfast, we need to build up the strength of both the Ulster Defence Regiment and the police. I welcome the move to bring in women but I suggest that at this time, above all, the regiment should be made very attractive in order to build up its strength.

There should be no regard for the pay freeze and other matters which prevail in the Government's mind. The Government's main function is to preserve law and order. For that reason, considerations such as pay policy should be put in the background in fixing the remuneration of UDR members.

I do not wish to detain the House any longer. We could engage in a wide-ranging debate. I look forward to hearing replies to the specific points that I have raised, especially those with regard to pay and protection and the question where the women are to serve. Finally, we must know the Government's intention about the control of the Ulster Defence Regiment in the long term.

11.55 a.m.

Mr. Blaker

This has been a useful debate. It has been remarkable for the complete unanimity of everyone who has taken part in it in paying tribute to the Ulster Defence Regiment and in supporting the proposals in the Bill. I welcome that very much and I heartily endorse the tributes that hon. Members have paid.

The debate has also been notable in the sense that not only hon. Members representing Northern Ireland constituencies have taken part. My hon. Friend the Member for Ormskirk (Mr. Soref) and the hon. Member for Battersea, South (Mr. Ernest G. Perry) have also contributed. I welcome their participation.

The right hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Peart) commented that the estimate was that only one additional civilian would be required as a result of the Bill. Perhaps I might explain how that could be done by saying that, generally speaking, the proposal is that the women who are taken on will be attached to the existing companies of the UDR. Speaking from memory, there are 59 companies in the 11 battalions. The additional women will be attached roughly proportionately to each of those companies. Therefore. there ought not to be a large additional administrative burden.

My hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Down, South (Captain Orr) referred to some rather wider aspects of internal security in Northern Ireland. He will not expect me to go into those matters now, since they go rather wider than the scope of the Bill. However my hon. and gallant Friend made the point that the activities of the men of the UDR have been different from those of the regular forces both in the sense that they remain in the Province permanently and to that extent are permanently in the danger area, and also that they are taking on tasks in addition to their regular jobs. It is quite remarkable how they do this. I believe that they do it out of a sense of duty and of wanting to serve their country, to preserve law and order, and restore peaceful conditions to Northern Ireland.

My hon. and gallant Friend asked about the strength of the regiment. It is now about 8,000. This represents a drop from the position some months ago. But the House should not be distressed about the drop. It has come about as the result of a number of factors. Some men have come to the end of their three-year engagements. The regiment was set up in 1970. A number of men have found that their jobs have made it difficult for them to continue and for that reason they have not renewed their engagements. That is not altogether surprising. However, the principal factor has been the deliberate policy, on the part of the regiment, of inviting those who have not been able to attend regularly to leave it. It is felt that it is better to have a smaller, somewhat slimmer regiment, all of whose members are active and able to take part in their regular duties—they are required to turn up at least a couple of times a week—rather than a larger one, where men may not be able to keep up to the standards of attendance set by the majority.

My hon. and gallant Friend asked whether there would be an officer structure for the women. I can assure him that there will be a normal officer structure.

My hon. and gallant Friend also asked about the training of women. The principal duties of the part-time women members of the regiment will be to act as searchers in support of patrols and at vehicle check points. They will be attached to sections or platoons of the regiment and will assist them in their tasks both in the countryside and in the cities, wherever those tasks happen to arise. Generally speaking, therefore, they will not operate on their own. They will be with the male members of the force and when they are in that situation will rely for their protection on the male members of the force, who will be armed.

Their basic military training will be what is necessary to allow them to fulfil that rôle. I am speaking now of those who will be performing part-time duties. We hope that a sufficient number will come forward for them to fulfil full-time duty as clerks, telephone operators, and so on. The training for the women doing those duties will consist of drill, how to report incidents, field craft, first-aid, anti-ambush procedures, procedure at and composition of vehicle check points and personnel check points, as well as procedures for searching.

Mr. McMaster

Will searching include border and border road searches?

Mr. Blaker

The searching will take place wherever the existing units of the regiment function. If they function in the countryside and near the border the women will be operating there. If they are in the cities, the women will be operating there.

I agree with my hon. and gallant Friend that the arming of these women is a difficult question. The intention is that they will not bear arms. As I have explained, when they are on duty with the sections or platoons of the regiment they will be able to rely for protection—for example, when they are searching at a checkpoint—on the armed men who will be with them.

Captain Orr

Does not my hon. Friend see some danger to a patrol if some of its members, instead of being able to concentrate upon their job, are conscious that they have an unarmed woman member with them? Would it not be much more sensible if such a woman member were at least trained in her own self-defence.

Mr. Blaker

It is a difficult question. It will be for the judgment of the local commander, not whether the women should be armed but exactly in what rôle they will be employed. I believe that they will be more often employed on static vehicle checkpoints than on patrols in country lanes.

Having carefully considered whether these women should be armed, we take the view that, in view of the past pattern of terrorist activity, the possession of arms would make these women more likely to be targets than if they were unarmed. So the balance of judgment lies in not providing them with arms.

If my hon. and gallant Friend is considering the question whether they need self-protection at home, I stress that any woman member of the regiment who considers herself to be particularly at risk may, in common with other citizens of the Province, apply to the civil authorities for permission to carry a firearm.

My hon. Friend the Member for Ormskirk took a rather apocalyptic view of the situation. It is possible for people in this country to misjudge the real nature of the IRA. To that extent I concede that there is something in what my hon. Friend said, but I think that he is unduly pessimistic. He expressed the view that the total force in Ulster, including the members of the UDR was inadequate. We have repeatedly said, and I repeat it, that we will adjust the level of the force to what we regard as the needs of the situation.

My hon. Friend asked how many members of the force have been injured. Since the inception of the regiment, 49 of its members have been injured.

My hon. Friend asked about pay and pensions for the women members of the force. The part-time women members of the force will qualify for Regular Army rates of pay at women rates when attending annual camp and for all other qualifying periods of duty and training. The women members of the permanent staff will be paid at rates which are related to those of their male counterparts. Those rates are slightly below. We are moving towards equal pay for women, as we have a duty to do, but we have not got there yet.

There have been complaints that members of the regiment, when called out, sometimes lose money because their employers are not prepared to make up the pay that has been lost. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and Ministers in his Department have been talking with employers about this matter and there has been some improvement. I hope that other employers who have not yet moved in this direction will take note of what has been said in the House today.

My hon. Friend the Member for Down, North (Mr. Kilfedder) expressed the hope that there would be a ready response to the possibility of women joining the regiment. Indeed, I hope that there will be. Even before we have passed the Act, as I hope it will soon be, the regiment has had about 60 letters asking whether women may join. As it has not been open to women to do so, that is a promising figure.

I was asked about the question of benefits for women and what would happen if they were injured on duty. Full- or part-time women members injured whilst serving with the regiment will continue to receive full military pay, less any national insurance sickness benefit payable, for a period of incapacity of up to six months.

Awards in respect of women members who are killed or are permanently disabled will be made under the war pensions Royal Warrants administered by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services, on the same basis as those awarded to women members in the regular Services. In addition to any awards from that Department, women members of the regiment who are invalided as a direct result of terrorist activity in Northern Ireland may qualify for ex-gratia awards of up to £400 a year, depending upon their degree of disability.

As for superannuation benefits, women members of the non-regular permanent staff will qualify for pensions and gratuities in the same way as their male counterparts. I do not think I need go into the details of those benefits, unless the House wishes me to do so, but for those who do not serve long enough to qualify for pensions, gratuities will be available.

This may seem to be a small Bill when compared with some of the major issues about Northern Ireland that the House has debated in the last few weeks, but it is, as we all agree, an important Bill and I believe that it will be welcomed in the Province for three excellent reasons.

First, it will add significantly to the effectiveness of the rôle which the Regiment is already playing. Secondly, the UDR symbolises the determination of reasonable, peace-loving citizens to work out their future without violence. Thirdly, the Bill allows us to acknowledge, albeit in only the most limited way, the unbounded debt of Northern Ireland and, indeed, of Great Britain to the women of the Province who have borne such a terrible burden and strain in the present emergency. We know that some of them want to be allowed to play an active rôle alongside the men in the work of the UDR. Let us give them the chance to do so.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

Committed to a Committee of the whole House.—[Mr. Murton.]

Further proceedings stood postponed pursuant to the Order of the House this day.