HC Deb 04 July 1973 vol 859 cc523-5
16. Miss Fookes

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will undertake to convene an international passport conference with a view to abolishing family passports.

17. Mr. William Hamilton

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will seek to initiate the convening of an international conference on the question of family passports and their validity.

Lord Balniel

In view of the fact that a large number of married couples are glad to take advantage of this facility, which enables them to travel together without the expense of obtaining separate passports, we could not justify initiating international action to abolish the family passport.

Miss Fookes

Will my right lion. Friend explain in simple English how he reconciles the fact that a wife may not travel alone on the passport with the Government's pledge that they will shortly introduce anti-discrimination legislation of their own?

Lord Balniel

There is a misconception about the matter. The family passport is an additional service over and above the individual right to own a passport. It works very well, and its removal would hurt families financially. The passports are extremely popular. If there had to be two separate passports there would be an additional cost of £5 to each family that at present goes on holiday on the family passport.

Mr. Hamilton

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that that does not necessarily follow? Does he not realise that the proposition that the head of the family alone should be able to use the passport himself, or, in the case of a widow, herself, was a German proposal made 47 years ago, and that social attitudes have changed since then? Why are the Government so reluctant to try to convene another conference on the matter to remedy this gross injustice, which is indefensible in present circumstances?

Lord Balniel

The hon. Gentleman's language exaggerates the situation. The passport is a free service, which is extremely popular with families, as it reduces the cost of family holidays. There is no need to call an international conference to abolish it. We could abolish it unilaterally without a conference.

Mr. Tapsell

I am not sure that my right hon. Friend is addressing his mind to the point that is being raised. There is a widespread feeling in this country and most other countries that the present position is an out-dated anomaly, and that passports should be issued equally to a woman or to a man. The fact that they are issued only to the male head of the family causes disquiet.

Lord Balniel

I appreciate that, but the family passport is something we grant over and above the usual passport facilities, and there is no obligation on any man or woman to take it. I appreciate my hon. Friend's point, but if his suggestion were adopted it is possible that the passport would not be acceptable to other countries, and the family passport, as such, would have to be withdrawn.

Mr. Richard

The right hon. Gentleman and the Government have gone round in a circle. When the matter was first raised by the hon. Member for Merton and Morden (Miss Fookes), the original point she made was: "Why should not a wife be entitled to use a family passport in exactly the same way as a husband?" The right hon. Gentleman will remember the answer that was then given, namely, that other countries might not accept it. The hon. Lady then said, "What have we to do to make other countries accept it?". She was then told—the right hon. Gentleman will remember this—that an international conference would have to be convened to persuade other countries of a wife's right to use a family passport. She is now asking for such a conference to be held and the Government are now saying, "No". Are not the Government getting themselves into a ludicrous position?

Lord Balniel

We do not know whether we shall get agreement. That is one aspect.

Dame Irene Ward

My right hon. Friend seems to be a bit muddled. Would not it be a good idea if the Government asked the Women's Commission to examine the matter? The commission is composed of all parties and all sorts of women. Let us see what we can do after we have received the commission's advice. The present situation described by my right hon. Friend seems unduly muddled. Does he agree that we should take proper action and really get to grips with the matter? Perhaps the Government will then be able to act properly.

Lord Baltiel

I am prepared to take the advice of my hon. Friend, the Member for Tynemouth (Dame Irene Ward). I am prepared to listen to the opinions of various organisations. However, the House must take account of the fact that it is the wish of many families that these passports should be issued. I shall willingly consider the point that has been put forward by my hon. Friend.

Mr. Loughlin

Will the right hon. Gentleman try to understand that the argument is not that the family passport is unpopular? The argument is that it should be possible for a wife to use a family passport. Is it absolutely necessary to have a convention simply to get agreement with other countries to accept that a woman can travel on a family passport without her husband? Would it not be possible to get in touch with other Governments and to determine whether they will accept that position?

Lord Balniel

We are making inquiries with other Governments about this matter.

Mr. Hamilton

In view of the utter confusion of Ministers of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office throughout this Question Time I shall seek to raise several subjects on the Adjournment.