HC Deb 30 January 1973 vol 849 cc1151-2
16. Mr. Skeet

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what proposals he has received from industrial boards to exclude more small firms from the payment of levy.

Mr. Chichester-Clark

A number of industrial training boards have submitted their intial proposals and others are expected to do so in the next few weeks. These proposals are being considered by my Department and will in some cases require further discussion with boards.

Mr. Skeet

I thank my hon. Friend for that information. As very small firms have already been exempted from the levy, will he consider exempting all small firms, pursuant to the recommendations of the Bolton Report? Will he also define exactly what a small firm is, in terms of numbers of employees or turnover?

Mr. Chichester-Clark

The Bolton Committee defined a small firm in a manufacturing industry as one with up to 200 employees. I think that that is well known. As for criteria concerning exemptions, we recognise—and probably the whole House recognises—that the definition of a small firm can be something quite different in each industry. That is why it is right to have discussions with the boards about their con-consideration as to what constitutes a small firm.

Mr. Prentice

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that one of the best results of the Industrial Training Act is the large number of small firms which have come into active training for the first time in the form of group training schemes, partly because of the levy rebate system, and that if he exempts too many small firms he will do great damage to training opportunities in this country? Will he not move too far down this road?

Mr. Chichester-Clark

I am aware of the right hon. Gentleman's point and, of course, it is taken into consideration. What lie says is true, but, equally, there are those small firms which probably should not be within the scope of these boards and exempted. Also, we have to take into account the amount of bureaucracy involved. What we are trying to do is to achieve a balance between good training and removing some of the bureaucracy.