HC Deb 21 February 1973 vol 851 cc448-51
7. Mr Edward Taylor

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many appeals against fair rents determined by the rent officers have been considered by the Glasgow Rent Assessment Committee in the last annual period for which figures are available; and in how many of these cases the committee increased, reduced or did not alter the rent officers' determination of rent.

Mr. Younger

Three hundred and forty references were dealt with during 1972 by the Glasgow Rent Assessment Committee. In 292 cases the committee determined fair rents higher than the rents registered by the rent officer, in eight cases they were lower, and in 40 cases the registered rents were confirmed.

Mr. Taylor

Do not these figures demonstrate clearly why a large number of tenants in Glasgow are reluctant to appeal to this rent assessment committee, which was established under the 1965 Act to be an impartial body to determine appeals by landlords and tenants? Is my hon. Friend aware that in the light of these figures all the people of Glasgow will be very glad indeed that the Secretary of State is to inquire into the Glasgow committee?

Mr. Younger

I know of my hon. Friend's very great concern with this problem. This system was set up by the previous Government some years ago and it has carried on unchanged from that time. I sympathise with the problems which are caused for some people when they face, after many years of very low rents, a steep increase. However, we now have for the first time rent allowance schemes which can protect tenants on low incomes. We have recently proposed to improve the rent allowance system substantially.

Mr. McElhone

I sympathise with the point expressed by the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward Taylor), but does not the Minister agree that the situation will be further aggravated because under the new Act there is no longer any certificate of qualification for houses?

Mr. Younger

I do not think that that will aggravate the situation. Under the new Act we have, for the first time, rent allowances. The fact that they did not exist before created considerable hardship—something which I should have thought the Labour Government would have thought of at the time.

Mr. Millan

In this inquiry, with particular reference to the Western Heritable houses, will the hon. Gentleman get the figures for the relationship between rents fixed by rent assessment committees and rateable values, which in the Western Heritable cases are three to one, which seems to be out of line with decisions else- where in Scotland? Is not the real answer in the Western Heritable cases, which affect the hon. Gentleman as well as myself, that these houses should be treated exactly the same as local authority houses—a proposition which the Government have refused to implement?

Mr. Younger

I have corresponded with the hon. Gentleman about this difficult problem. These are not local authority houses. They are being treated in exactly the manner laid down by the Labour Government of which the hon. Gentleman was a member. What is important is that we should try to minimise any hardship to individuals; and this we have done for the first time in the Housing Finance Act 1972.

Mr. Lambie

I am glad the Under-Secretary has confirmed that a committee of inquiry is to be set up into the workings of the Glasgow Rent Assessment Committee. I hope that he will include other rent assessment committees. Does he recall that when I asked a year ago for a public inquiry into the working of rent assessment committees, in view of the background of bad decisions, he nearly jumped out of his skin with indignation that anyone would suggest that these committees were dominated by landlords and other people interested in high rents?

Mr. Younger

The hon. Gentleman would be well advised to look at the facts of the case. He will find that the personnel composing the rent assessment committees is exactly as it was under his Government who set them up. The Labour Government laid down—I think wisely—that Governments would not have the right to interfere with levels of rent established by the committees.

Mr. Ross

Surely the Under-Secretary appreciates that we have had experience of this problem since the first Act went on to the Statute Book and that when we discussed this matter in detail on the last Financial Provisions Act his Government—he was the spokesman—refused to change the personnel of the committee and refused to treat these houses as local authority houses, because they were subsidised by the Government. The hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward Taylor) gave us no support then.

Mr. Younger

It would be a great pity if the right hon. Gentleman now expected us to change the people whom he appointed to these committees. If he regrets what he did, he will no doubt say why. As for treating these houses as local authority houses, they are not local authority houses and are therefore covered by the perfectly normal Statutes for such houses as they are.