HC Deb 20 February 1973 vol 851 cc231-8
The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Robert Carr)

With permission, I should like to make a statement about an incident this morning at the Indian High Commission.

The reports as yet available to me are inevitably incomplete, and exactly what happened is still far from clear.

A few minutes after 9.30 a.m. several members of the High Commission staff telephoned the police to say that an attack had been made on the building by masked men carrying firearms. Police detachments arrived almost at once, including four police officers assigned to the duty of protecting embassies and high commissions and, therefore, carrying firearms.

On arrival at the building, the officers were informed by one of the hostages, who had escaped by jumping through a plate glass window into the street, that the intruders had guns. On entering the building through a side entrance, two of the officers were threatened by one of the intruders with a gun. They took cover, drew their weapons and warned the intruder that they were armed police officers. This had no effect, and when the intruder moved across the room still aiming his gun at them one officer shot and killed him.

The two officers then went further into the room and were again threatened by a second man aiming a gun at them. He was also shot and subsequently died. A third intruder was arrested.

Three members of the High Commission's staff were injured by the assailants and received treatment in hospital, one of whom is still detained. Two police officers were taken to hospital, one of whom is still detained.

So far the police have taken possession of one sword, three daggers, an acid spray and two replica guns but have not found any actual firearms.

A number of witnesses of the disturbance are being interviewed by the police, and I expect shortly to receive further reports from the Commissioner of Police, including reports about the identity and nationality of those concerned and their possible motives.

My right hon. Friend the Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs meanwhile has visited the High Commissioner to express the deep regret of Her Majesty's Government at the injuries sustained by staff of the High Commission and the damage done to its property.

Mr. John Fraser

I thank the Secretary of State for making a statement. I express on behalf of the Opposition great regret and concern that this conflict which has involved two deaths and several injuries should have broken out in the centre of London on the territory of a friendly Commonwealth country. I also hope that the injuries to police officers, innocent bystanders and members of the staff of the High Commission are not serious. I need hardly express my admiration for the courage and gallantry of those who faced people believed to be armed and obviously intent upon violence.

Has the right hon. Gentleman any knowledge about the motives of the intruders? Second, will there be a very thorough search for arms and ammunition, and, if they are found, will he do all that he can to establish the source? Third, is he satisfied that the situation was such that in the judgment of the police officers their action was the only way of controlling a very difficult situation? Fourth, will he confirm that the code of conduct of the Metropolitan Police for the issue of firearms to police officers was, as usual, strictly observed and that the Special Patrol Group unit which apparently also went to India House was not armed? I think that there will be concern if Special Patrol Group units are armed except in the most exceptional circumstances. Fifth, though I know it is difficult, can he say whether the High Commission and other diplomatic premises in London have devised adequate security arrangements so that action may be taken by the foreign countries themselves as well as relying on the Metropolitan Police? Finally, when the right hon. Gentleman has further information about this, will he make another statement to the House?

Mr. Carr

I will certainly give further information to the House when I have it. I thank the hon. Gentleman for what he has said about the courage and gallantry of the police. I will pass a message containing the appreciation of the House to the Metropolitan Commissioner. I believe that the speed with which this call was answered was outstanding. I am glad to say, as I am informed at the moment, none of the injured people is seriously injured. That is my present information, and I hope that it proves to be correct.

I have no knowledge at the moment about the motives of those involved. This is one of the matters into which we shall be inquiring most carefully. The police will certainly make the most careful search for arms and ammunition, and, if they are found, every attempt will be made to trace their source. I should say in passing, and I expect hon. Members will know this, that the replica guns to which I referred have to be seen pretty closely before one realises that they are replicas and not the real thing.

I was asked whether I was as satisfied as I could be that this was the only course open to the police. I think I can assure the House of that on the information so far given to me. The whole thing is being looked into carefully. It is worth recalling that all the calls which came to the police from the Indian High Commission specifically mentioned that the intruders had guns. In addition, the one hostage who escaped by jumping through the window and met the policeman arriving specifically said that the intruders had guns. Therefore, when the police went into the building all the information available to them suggested that they were meeing intruders who had taken hostages and were carrying guns. This is exactly what they met.

I can assure the House that the code of conduct governing the carrying of guns by the Metropolitan Police is strictly observed. In this case, only four officers were armed. A much larger number of officers went to the scene. The four who were armed belonged to the small number of police specifically assigned to the duty of guarding embassies and high commissions. We know, alas, from our experience in London, as well as from experience in other countries, that people who attack embassies and high commissions are liable to be armed.

I am sure the House will think it right that our special detachment of police whom we expect to go to these places should themselves be armed. No other police officers were armed, and of the four who were, only two drew their guns.

The hon. Gentleman asked me one further question but I am afraid it has slipped my memory.

Mr. Fraser

Is the right hon. Gentleman consulting the high commissions to make sure that they make their own security arrangements?

Mr. Carr

Indeed. We are in constant touch with embassies and high commissions about this. We have a duty to provide protection to foreign embassies and Commonwealth high commissions in this country. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the embassies and high commissions are increasingly taking measures to protect themselves.

Mr. Tugendhat

I express my sympathy to the Indian High Commissioner and my admiration for the police.

I realise that this is a difficult subject for the Home Secretary to speak on, with the facts so recently at hand. Will he bear in mind that most of the embassies and diplomatic missions in London are in my constituency and that many are surrounded by houses and residential property? Is he aware that this incident, which is the second involving guards for embassies, is causing increasing and widespread concern among the people who live in Westminster? Is he aware that I hope that when he feels the moment is appropriate he will be able to take the public as well as the House as much into his confidence as possible to allay the doubts and worries which some of the people in London justifiably feel?

Mr. Carr

I understand the concern that is caused to the whole population by incidents of this kind. It is disturbing that such incidents, which we never expected to happen in London, have now taken place. I believe that prompt action by the police to demonstrate that anyone who attempts this sort of thing at an embassy or high commission in London will be caught and dealt with is perhaps the best deterrent and the best way of allaying people's fears.

Mr. David Steel

I am sure that my hon. and right hon. Friends would wish to be associated with the Home Secretary's message of concern to the Indian High Commissioner. Will the right hon. Gentleman consider making a further statement this week when more facts are available? This is obviously a matter of considerable concern. May I ask a question about the replica guns? Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to see whether it can be established where these originated, because there is a growing concern in this country that these things are freely on sale in toy shops?

Mr. Carr

I will seek an opportunity to give further information to the House as soon as I have it. I am concerned about these replica guns. Recently I received a report from a Home Office working party dealing with the whole question of firearms. This is one of the matters which I shall be considering.

Mrs. Knight

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the possibility that this deplorable incident may well have sprung from the growing concern which Pakistanis in this country have for the 19,000 civilian prisoners who are still kept under duress by India? Will my right hon. Friend have conversations with the Foreign Secretary about this?

Mr. Carr

My hon. Friend should not prejudge the position. We will make these inquiries and my right hon. Friend will take a close interest in the outcome.

Mr. Edward Lyons

Is not the lesson of this deplorable incident that two men lie dead because of the use of replica guns? Is it correct that they are imported from Japan, yet their sale is banned there? Is it also correct that they are made so as to be the same as real guns in balance, colour and appearance, so that even experienced officers used to handling firearms are deceived? Must not something be done quickly to stop the importation and distribution of these guns?

Mr. Carr

I am concerned about this question of replica guns and will be looking into it. The House ought not to accept such a simplification of this, that two men lie dead because of replica guns. Two men lie dead because an armed assault was made on the Indian High Commission. Even if the guns were replicas and even if no real guns were found, the acid spray was real, the daggers were real, the sword was real, and they were used and injured people.

Mr. Fidler

Will my right hon. Friend accept that the feeling on this side of the House, and I believe throughout the country, is satisfaction and approval that these four armed police officers were so readily available and on the spot so quickly? Is he aware that my only regret is that more armed officers were not available on this occasion? Will he accept, in view of the increased use of firearms by terrorists, and the fact that capital punishment has been sumarrily executed on the two alleged gunmen, that the time has come to consider whether this deterrent should not be replaced on the statute book?

Mr. Carr

I will not take this opportunity to enter into a debate with my hon. Friend on some of the matters he has raised. I cannot accept what he has said about the need for more armed police to be available. What is necessary in exceptional circumstances is that police should be available quickly, and, if necessary. one or two of them should be armed. We will see that that is achieved. It is the speed of the police reaction and the fact that of those who came it was only felt necessary for four to carry arms about which we should be pleased.

Mr. Bidwell

If it should turn out that this incident has anything to do with the recent war between Pakistan and India, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that almost all people of Pakistani and Indian origin in this country will deeply deplore what has occurred? Will he bear that very much in mind in seeking to obtain evidence, and round up the culprits and prevent a similar occurrence? Will he also remember that a recent Select Committee report pointed out that the overwhelming number of Pakistani and Indian people in this country were more law-abiding that the rest of us?

Mr. Carr

I am sure it is true that the overwhelming majority of citizens of Asian origin in this country will deplore what has happened this morning as much as anyone else. I can certainy confirm that our statistics show, as indeed the Select Committee brought out last summer, that, if anything, that community has a lower crime record than the rest of the community.

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