HC Deb 19 February 1973 vol 851 cc8-10
7. Mr. David Steel

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications under what specific circumstances he will give refunds on television licences.

Sir J. Eden

When the licence holder's need for a licence has not exceeded 28 days; when two licences are taken out but only one is needed; and when a licensee surrenders an unexpired monochrome licence when taking out a colour licence.

Mr. Steel

Can the Minister go further and designate those substantial geographical areas that still do not receive, for example, colour transmissions or BBC2? Will he offer refunds for people who move into those areas because of their work and who cannot get the services for which they have already paid a licence fee?

Sir J. Eden

No, Sir. Progress towards extending UHF coverage all over the country is taking place as fast as possible. But the matter the hon. Gentleman raised does not fall within my powers to relieve licences.

Sir G. Nabarro

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that the only rational answer to all this abracadabra of licensing and his expenditure of £10.5 million is the amalgamation, on to one form, of every type of Government licence, which would show gigantic economies?

Sir J. Eden

That is an interesting point, to which my hon. Friend has referred before, but it would involve substantial expenditure to reach that position.

Mr. Pavitt

Will the Minister reconsider his previous answer, bearing in mind that hon. Members who live in the Division bell area, because of the spoiling of the environment by the Department of the Environment massive building in Marsham Street—which makes it practically impossible to receive BBC2 or BBC1—can receive only the advertisements of ITA? Perhaps we could have the fee reduced for the inadequate service, and perhaps one day when the right hon. Gentleman is on BBC2 we shall be able to see him, if he will take technical action to enable a picture to be received.

Sir J. Eden

The hon. Gentleman misinterprets the purpose for which a licence fee is paid. It is paid to enable the owner to operate a receiving set. On the question of colour licences and the absence of colour facilities, the hon. Gentleman will know that the colour licence includes permission to use black and white television.

Mr. Marten

When someone who has taken out a licence a few months later goes abroad, why cannot he reclaim the unexpired portion, as does the owner of a motor car licence?

Sir J. Eden

Because the licence relates to permission to use a receiving set and not—as does the motor car licence—to a specific unit such as a vehicle, and, secondly, because of the enormously increased cost of operation to which this would give rise. The system is extremely efficiently operated, and this enables us to keep the licence fee, generally, reasonably low.

Mr. Gregor Mackenzie

In view of the dissatisfaction of hon. Members on both sides of the House with the answers on licensing that the Minister has given, will not he reconsider the whole question and give us some sensible answers?

Sir J. Eden

I am interested in the hon. Gentleman's observations. As he knows, when in Government the Labour Party considered the whole question of the way in which the BBC receives its revenue and came to the conclusion that in all the circumstances the existing licence fee system was the best and fairest one to operate.