HC Deb 17 December 1973 vol 866 cc943-5
40. Mr. Pardoe

asked the Minister for the Civil Service by what percentage the average wages of secretaries and typists employed in the Civil Service in London have increased since 1st January 1972.

Mr. Kenneth Baker

The average wages of all secretaries and typists have been increased by 19 per cent. since 1st January 1972, including the increase on that date. I am glad to say that a settlement has just been reached which, if the Pay Board approves, will give an average increase of about 8½ per cent. from 7th November 1973. There will be a stage 3 increase on 1st January 1974.

Mr. Pardoe

While this may not be the best day to ask for an increase for anyone, does not that reply mean that the allowance to a Member in respect of his secretary should have risen by about £160 since January 1972? Will the hon. Gentleman discuss the matter with his right hon. Friend the Lord President of the Council?

Mr. Baker

There are Questions later today to my right hon. Friend on the subject of allowances for Members for secretarial services. I am responsible for Civil Service secretaries, and the figures I have given show that their salaries have risen reasonably well over the past 18 months.

Mr. Pavitt

As the hon. Gentleman has one of the few Departments able to breach the principle "For them that hath may more be given", will he consider the subject of differentials so that block increases given to secretaries are not extended to men with £10,000, so that differentials are based on the strategy for other sectors of the Pay Code?

Mr. Baker

We did that in the past when we shifted increases further down so as to give the lower-paid, such as junior typists and secretaries, a greater amount than was available to those earning, say, £4,000 or £5,000 a year.

Mr. Biffen

Have the Pay Board and the Price Commission been able to fulfil their clerical functions at these rates of pay, or have they been obliged to use outside agencies?

Mr. Baker

To some extent they have been obliged—as have all employers in London, both public and private—to use secretarial agencies. [Interruption.] It is not entirely a matter of pay. Many girls who become secretaries and typists want a life style different from the past. I do not speak from personal experience. They want much longer holidays, and when they work they want to work for very much longer hours. That is one of the reasons why secretaries and typists in London find that agency work gives them the sort of things they want—independence and longer holidays as well as more pay.