HC Deb 11 December 1973 vol 866 cc201-5
The Secretary of State for Employment (Mr. William Whitelaw)

With permission, Mr. Speaker, I wish to make a statement about the ASLEF dispute.

I have to inform the House that no agreement was reached at yesterday's meeting between British Rail, ASLEF, the National Union of Ralwaymen and the Transport Salaried Staffs' Association. ASLEF refused to lift its threat of action or to refer the issues in dispute to the next stage of the industry's agreed procedure. On learning that this remained ASLEF's position after its executive meeting this morning. I thought it right to invite it to see me immediately. I have also discussed the situation with the Chairman of British Rail and with the other unions.

At our meeting I impressed upon the ASLEF executive the extreme seriousness of the threatened action and its consequences for the community. The action proposed includes general non-co-operation, bans on overtime, rest day and Sunday working, and there seems little doubt that this could lead to a progressive and rapid breakdown of both passenger and freight services.

The travelling public will be immediately affected and have to face considerable hardship. This is happening in the fortnight before Christmas and at a time when, because of the petrol shortage, many people are switching to rail in order to travel.

The current shortage of energy supplies already poses a most serious threat to our prospects for economic growth, to our living standards and to employment. The ASLEF action will materially worsen the position.

Against this background, I urged the executive to reconsider its decision and to seek to resolve its remaining differences with British Rail and the other unions. I told it that I believed the proper course for it, in the national interest, was to refer any outstanding issues on restructuring to the Railway Staff National Tribunal, the industry's jointly established arbitration machinery which is the next stage of its procedure, particularly since ASLEF had recently reached agreement with British Rail and the other unions on the appointment of a new independent chairman to the Tribunal, who must clearly be acceptable to it.

The executive undertook to reconsider its decision in the light of what I had to say and promised to let me know the outcome. I sincerely hope that it will call off its industrial action.

Mr. Prentice

Is the House to understand from the last sentence of the statement that the right hon. Gentleman expects to be in touch with the ASLEF executive later today? We would welcome more information on that point. We would also naturally ask him to make a further statement to the House either this evening or, at the latest, tomorrow on how the situation has developed.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that he will always have our good will as long as he pursues the rôle of peace maker, which is traditional to his office, and avoids the confrontation techniques that have characterised Government policy in these spheres so much in the last three years? Will he assure the House that he is not contemplating any use of the procedures under the Industrial Relations Act? If he were to do that, I hope that he would take our advice that this would be the most counter-productive action he could take.

I do not think that many hon. Members will want to pursue the merits of the argument at this critical moment. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will convey to all the parties involved that there is deep appreciation in this House of the natural anxieties of skilled and experienced railwaymen who have seen their relative position decline over the years and that they have a case that needs to be examined. On the other hand, we would expect them to take serious account of the appeal made by my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition last week and to recognise that the industrial action that they have in mind, which would cause hardship to the travelling public and to their fellow workers, would be particularly damaging at this moment, first, because of the fuel situation, which means that a transport disclocation would have a disproportionate effect on other people's jobs, and, secondly, because of the Christmas period when a large number of families are hoping to be reunited. We hope that the ASLEF executive and membership will bear these points in mind.

Mr. Whitelaw

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his remarks.

On the first point, the ASLEF executive said that it would consider what I have said and inform me of its decision. I understand that it was to meet at 3 o'clock. I do not know what the result of that meeting will be. As at present advised, it probably will not be helpful to the House for me to make another statement. I will bear in mind what the right hon. Gentleman said and will consult my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House. If such an occasion seemed to be right and seemed to warrant my making a statement, I should do so, but I rather doubt that it will.

I have made it perfectly dear that I believe that the right course is to continue with the industry's negotiating procedures and to go to arbitration. That remains my position. I told the ASLEF executive that many people would find it very hard to understand why it did not feel able to follow that course. I was informed that it did not believe that it could keep control of its members and lead them into such a situation. I replied that I believed that there were times in all our lives when we have to lead and do our best in what we believe to be the national interest and I very much hoped that it would seek to lead its members. If it did, I believe that it would get their backing. I had to say that the executive obviously knew more about its members than I did, but I felt that this was a time for leadership.

I am not contemplating using the Industrial Relations Act, for the reason that I have made clear—namely, that the normal procedures in the industry have not yet been completed.

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman about the skill and experience of train drivers. I know that they feel that they have in some way been rather harshly treated compared with others and, equally, that the present restructuring negotiations have been going on for a very long time. They feel frustrated about it. But the other unions seem to be in close agreement, and, in that situation, I very much hope that they will still reconsider their decision.

Mr. Fry

Is it not ironic that the present ASLEF action follows so soon after the Government's clear statement of confidence in the future of British Rail? Furthermore, is it surprising in the circumstances if those who are responsible for the movement of freight are thinking more closely about transferring important goods to rail if such actions continue in the future?

Mr. Whitelaw

I took the opportunity to point out to the ASLEF executive members that as a result of our energy problems they were undoubtedly presented with considerable opportunities for the railways in the future. I also pointed out to them the trust which the Government had put into the railways by the investment that they were making. I said that I believed that it would be a tragedy in the circumstances if this were thrown away by action such as they contemplate. I made that clear to them.

Mr. Atkinson

Is the right hon. Gentleman confident that if the railwaymen went to arbitration the outcome of the negotiations would be over and above phase 3?

Mr. Whitelaw

It would be very unwise for me to speculate on a hypothetical situation. I believe that the right course now is to continue with the procedures and to go to arbitration on the whole of the British Railways restructuring proposals.

Several Hon. Members rose——

Mr. Speaker

Order. I hope that I have the support of the House if I move on now.