DIESEL FUEL (TAXICABS) (Hansard, 6 December 1973)

§ Mr. Speaker
Mr. Varley, Private Notice Question.

§ Dame Irene Ward
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I am sorry to bother you, but could you kindly explain why, when I have Question No. 37 on the Order Paper dealing with the requirements of taxi drivers all over the country, I should suddenly hear that a Private Notice Question in a more restricted form has today been granted? Yesterday I told my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry that I was putting down this Question. I wonder whether he can solve this problem and thus obviate you from explaining why this extraordinary thing has happened. If the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry would kindly answer my Question first, I think that it would be fairer, because I am asking for the protection of taxi drivers all over the country, not just restricted to London.

§ Mr. Speaker
I have received no request to answer Question No. 37. In making a decision to allow a Private Notice Question I do not give my reasons, but I have regard to the possibility of a Question being reached.

§ Dame Irene Ward
I think it is awfully mean.

§ Dame Irene Ward
That is not the Question I asked.

§ The Minister for Industry (Mr. Tom Boardman)
My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Industry and Consumer Affairs and officials of my Department saw representatives of the Licensed Taxi Drivers' Association yesterday and asked for particulars of the main outlets from which they draw their fuel and the extent of any shortfall in supplies. This information has not yet been received. As soon as it is we will explore urgently with the oil industry what can or should be done to help.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. Mr. Varley, to ask a supplementary question.

§ Mr. Varley
Is the Minister aware that the assurance given by his Department that the licensed taxicab trade would receive priority is not working out satisfactorily and that oil companies do not seem to be giving the priority that the situation demands?
Does he recognise that, because supplies are so short, many taxi drivers are having to cut down their services at a time when they are most needed in view of the shortage of petrol supplies for private motorists? Does he realise that if the situation deteriorates further it will push more people on to an already over-burdened public transport system? In view of the immense contribution that the taxi trade can make to maintaining essential services, as well as to fuel economy, does he not think that he should have more regular meetings with the taxi trade during this period so that the situation can be worked out more clearly and a satisfactory arrangement can be arrived at?

§ Mr. Boardman
As soon as this problem was raised my hon. Friend and officials in my Department had discussions on possible proposals. In fact we had anticipated this type of difficulty. We are waiting for the Licensed Taxi Drivers' Association to give us certain information. There will be no delay on our part in taking action, if action is found to be necessary, as soon as we get that information. We accept that there is a need to assist people to get about without using their own cars, but at the 1453 same time there must be restraint on the use of fuel by taxis and other users at this time.

§ Mr. Speaker
Dame Irene Ward, to put a supplementary question.

§ Dame Irene Ward
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. May I now ask my hon. Friend when we shall get a satisfactory answer? In view of the fact that I am already rather annoyed about the whole thing, may I say that it is about time—[HON. MEMBERS : "Ask a question."] Does my hon. Friend accept that it is about time that the Government took a decision? The taxi drivers have been bothering about this matter, even if the Opposition have not, for quite a long time. Certainly they have been bothering me.

§ Mr. Boardman
I know that my hon. Friend is particularly concerned whether taxis should be declared public transport. I remind her that at no other time when there has been this type of restraint have taxis been declared public transport, although they have been given special consideration. The reason is that taxis would have an unlimited supply of fuel when others were extremely limited and that could lead to abuse in that people could hire taxis for a whole day and take an advantage which would not be proper in the circumstances.

§ Dame Irene Ward
That is a silly answer.

§ Mr. Grimond
While in no way criticising this plea on behalf of taxi drivers, may I ask whether the Minister is aware that if taxi drivers are given priority there will be great resentment in many rural areas where people have to use private transport to get to work because there is no public transport? In London there is still a great deal of public transport available whereas in some rural areas there is none.

§ Mr. Boardman
I fully recognise the right hon. Gentleman's point. It is a question of getting the right balance, and that is what we are aiming to do.

§ Mr. Geoffrey Finsberg
I appreciate that my hon. Friend is waiting for figures, but does he realise that as long ago as last Thursday certain suggestions were put forward—suggestions that his hon. Friends the Under-Secretaries of State for 1454 Trade and Industry and for the Environment know about and recognise—that would have made a contribution to fuel saving by taxi drivers and nothing has yet been done?

§ Mr. Boardman
My hon. Friend will recall what was said by my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for the Environment during the Committee stage of the Fuel and Electricity (Control) Bill on the Floor of the House. I believe that my hon. Friend was satisfied with that statement.

§ Mr. Clinton Davis
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the trade does not take his views very seriously at the moment? Taxi drivers are deeply concerned because a number of licensed cab traders have been told by their suppliers that they will not receive deliveries for between eight and 10 days. In consequence, many of them will face financial disaster. Is it not time that rationing was introduced, to get away from this chaotic and haphazard situation, in conformity with the demands that are being made by the trade?

§ Mr. Boardman
The Association has been asked to give certain information upon which action could be taken. It is for the Association to give us that information. I hope that it will be forthcoming. It was not available a quarter of an hour ago.

§ Mr. Tebbit
Will my hon. Friend comment on the report in the Evening Standard that oil stocks in this country are down to 46 days? Will he also assure the House that, whilst business motoring is protected, business aviation, which is equally essential, will not be discriminated against?

§ Mr. Boardman
I will happily correct the impression that appeared in the Evening Standard with regard to stocks. I would draw my hon. Friend's attention to what I said on Monday 3rd December : Notwithstanding the heavy stocking undertaken by consumers, the indications are that there has been no significant change in total oil company stocks during the last week."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 3rd December 1973 ; Vol. 865, c. 897.] As for aviation, the Minister for Aerospace and Shipping will be making a statement in due course.

§ Mrs. Castle
Has the right hon. Gentleman seen the evidence in today's Daily Mirror that certain petrol station are remaining closed although they are fully stocked up with petrol? Will he take action, by regulation if necessary?

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. We are dealing with taxis at the moment in this Question.

§ Mrs. Castle
Some of them, I should have thought, might, like the rest of us, have been desperately casting around for petrol and finding only closed petrol stations.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The Question was about adequate supplies of diesel fuel for the licensed taxi trade.

§ Mrs. Castle
It is a question certainly of their having supplies of fuel—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The right hon. Lady said "fuel". Previously she said "petrol". She has now brought her her supplementary question within order and she may put it.

§ Mrs. Castle
These petrol stations are remaining closed although they are fully stocked with fuel. Will the Minister take action, by regulation if necessary, to put a stop to this discreditable practice?

§ Mr. Boardman
The right hon. Lady will have seen that arrangements are being made through the Oil Industry Emergency Committee to ensure that certain stations are open throughout the period of daytime. It is a question of avoiding congestion in stations and of ensuring that stocks are kept at a level which will run down over the normal period and not all be absorbed by any form of panic buying for a very short period.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I must make it clear that the Question which was put was a narrow Question about the taxi trade. I did not intend to allow questions ranging widely over the whole subject of the present restriction of fuel.