§ 5. Mr. Pavittasked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will intervene with a view to assisting to resolve the difficulties which have arisen in making senior staff appointments to the reorganised National Health Service ; if he will consult the Staff Commission, National and Local Government Officers Association and other bodies concerned ; and if he will make a statement.
§ Sir K. JosephNo, Sir. Eighty per cent. of the posts of area administrator, area nursing officer and area treasurer have been filled ; and a further 13 per cent. have not been filled because the applicant chosen preferred a similar post with another area authority, or for other personal reasons. As I stated in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich, South (Dr. Stuttaford) on 30th November, details of the unfilled posts have been circulated and the necessary guidance on the short-listing and other arrangements was issued on 15th November.—[Vol. 865, c. 247–8.]
§ Mr. PavittWhy is the Secretary of State so reluctant to use his persuasive powers when faced with the possibility that he will not be able to start the new National Health Service on 1st April with 80,000 officers likely to be leaving the service? There is chaos, uncertainty and a good deal of disappointment at what has been going on with the Staff Commission and NALGO. Why have the Government decided that local government officers should be paid for extra work but that NHS officers should not be paid for it? Surely it is time that he came down from the Olympian heights and started to negotiate personally with the people concerned.
§ Sir K. JosephThe hon. Gentleman is a great friend of the National Health Service and he does it no good by exaggerating the present understandable worries of the management staff concerned. The hon. Gentleman is greatly exaggerating the situation, though I recognise that there is much concern.
As for the different treatment between local government and National Health Service management staff by way of overtime payments, I much regret that the Pay Board, discharging the duty laid 1067 upon it by Parliament, made a decision that precluded the Government from honouring their intention of making extra payments to some managers for overtime.
§ Dr. SummerskillWill the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that he started off on the wrong foot when he arbitrarily fixed the salaries of chief officers and that it was only after NALGO protested and saw the Prime Minister that an adjustment was made? Will he also bear in mind that, among the administrative staff of the National Health Service, there is grave dissatisfaction about the lack of consultation and information regarding salary scales, posts and methods of selection? Will he accept from my hon. Friend the Member for Willesden, West (Mr. Pavitt) that people are leaving the health service to take jobs in local government which offer greater security and higher salaries?
§ Sir K. JosephI reluctantly made a unilateral decision on salaries in the first place because of the exigencies of time. The Staff Commission has my entire confidence. I believe that it has published its answers to the comments made by NALGO.
I think that the hon. Lady slightly misstated the situation regarding people leaving the health service. Some officers in local authority health departments are not showing keen enthusiasm to join the new health service. That would be more accurate than the way the hon. Lady described the situation of National Health Service officers flowing to local government.
§ Mr. PavittOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg leave to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.