HC Deb 19 April 1973 vol 855 cc656-9
9. Mr. Jay

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how much of the £5 million EEC Information Budget in the present year will be used in payment of secret retaining fees to undisclosed persons for services to the EEC.

Mr. Higgins

None to my knowledge.

Mr. Jay

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the British public's money is involved? Is it not the duty of Ministers to find out how the money is being used and to give that information to the House?

Mr. Higgins

I shall try to make the position clear. I am aware that the right hon. Gentleman raised this question on an earlier occasion. I have made inquiries and it is my understanding, based on the inquiries made of the Commission which is responsible for the various programmes within the budgetary agreements agreed by the Council of Ministers, that no element of the British contribution is itemised in any particular section within the Commissions' budget. As my hon. Friend the Chief Secretary indicated, if the hon. Gentleman has a specific point in mind it would be helpful if he were to raise it.

Mr. Stonehouse

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is extremely important that the standards of disclosure of the affairs of the EEC should at least be equal to those adopted by the United Kingdom? What is the hon. Gentleman doing to ensure that those standards will apply in future?

Mr. Higgins

Clearly the circumstances are not precisely the same, and both institutions must be considered on their merits. It is not immensely helpful for the right hon. Gentleman to put down a Question which indicates that he is referring to a specific matter and then to deal with the matter by way of generalities.

10. Mr. Heffer

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what steps he is taking to prevent a recurrence of the unexplained disappearance of £50 million of EEC budget funds in the year 1970.

Mr. Nott

As I told the hon. Member for Walthamstow, West (Mr. Deakins) on 10th April, I am not aware of any evidence that an amount of this order has been lost.—[Vol. 854, c. 265.]

Mr. Heffer

Has the hon. Gentleman had drawn to his attention the report of Mr. Heinreich Aigner, on behalf of the Committee for Finance and Budgets of the European Parliament, which indicates that there is constant fraud in the operation of the Common Market Agricultural Fund? It is estimated that about £40 million a year is lost. No one seems to know where that money is going. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that from 1st July the Commission is proposing—the proposal will operate from 1975—that the budget will neither come before the European Parliament nor be vetted by any national Parliament in any of the EEC countries? Is it not an absolute scandal that this position should arise? What are the Government prepared to do about it?

Mr. Nott

I do not know where the hon. Gentleman gets these facts—

Mr. Heffer

Read the report of the European Parliament.

Mr. Nott

The European Parliament has a budget which is discussed and which has to be agreed by the Council of Ministers. Undoubtedly frauds have taken place in the Community, but there is great confusion about the matter. Nobody quite knows from where the figure of £50 million has come. There is nothing to substantiate that such a loss has taken place. Effective control by Community institutions, and in particular, effective scrutiny by the Audit Board, is very important. With that the Government wholly agree.

Mr. Wyn Roberts

Does not this Question and what we have heard indicate that the sooner the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Heffer) joins the hon. Member for Belfast, South (Mr. Pounder) in the European Parliament the better?

Mr. Nott

If my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast, South (Mr. Pounder) feels that that would be a good idea, and that he would like the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Heffer) as a companion, I am sure that the whole House would welcome it.

Mr. Molloy

Does the Minister agree that the questions put both by my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Heffer) and by my right hon. Friend the Member for Battersea, North (Mr. Jay) concern money supplied by the British taxpayer? Is he prepared, on behalf of the British public to investigate what is happening to British taxpayers' money within the European Parliament?

Mr. Nott

I can understand that hon. Members are extremely interested in this important matter. Why does not the Labour Party join the European Parliament, which is the forum for discussion of these matters? The hon. Member for Ealing, North (Mr. Molloy) feels strongly about the matter, and I am sorry that the Labour Party is not participating in the discussions in the European Parliament. I agree entirely that these are matters of great importance. It is of great importance that the Audit Board's work is carried out with the maximum dispatch and with the maximum efficiency. Certainly we agree with that.

Mr. Brian Walden

Will the Government give some attention to a matter which is likely to be of great consequence to the House of Commons? Is it not the case that scrutiny of the Council of Ministers or the actions of a non-elected Parliament, which has no authority to displace the Ministers of the Council of Ministers, is nothing like the same as our system? Are there not serious constitutional matters which the Government should think about?

Mr. Nott

There are important issues at stake. As I have already said, we will press for any improvements which appear to be necessary in the Audit Board's procedures. The figure which was mentioned in the Question of the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Heffer) is, I emphasise, an alleged loss which is said to have taken place in 1970 before we joined the Community.