Northern Ireland (Hansard, 17 April 1973)

§ 4. Mr. Duffy
asked the Minister of State for Defence if he will make a further statement on the operations of the British Army in Northern Ireland.

§ 3. Mr. Cronin
asked the Minister of State for Defence if he will make a further statement on the operations of the British Army in Northern Ireland.

§ 14. Mr. Goodhart
asked the Minister of State for Defence if he will make a further statement on the operations of the British Army in Northern Ireland.

§ Mr. Ian Gilmour
The Army is continuing to support the civil authorities in Northern Ireland in the maintenance of law and order. By undertaking patrols and conducting selective searches it is continuing to combat violence, from whatever quarter it may arise, and to protect the lives and property of the community.

§ Mr. Duffy
Does the Minister recall the much more hopeful picture of operations and accommodation in Northern Ireland that I was anxious to project in the recent Army debate? Is he aware of the disturbing Press reports about the current operations of the paratroops and will he ensure that no operations are undertaken which might jeopardise the success of the White Paper? Has any change been made in the instructions governing the use of the yellow card, and were representations made about Colonel Lorimer before his transfer to England?

§ Mr. Gilmour
I always think it right not to be over-optimistic in outlining the current operations of the Army in Northern Ireland. I have no reason to believe that there is anything wrong in what the paratroops have done. The terms of the yellow card are kept under continual review. They have not been changed lately and I see no reason to change them. As far as I know, no representations were made about Colonel Lorimer.

§ Mr. Goodhart
If the Army continues throughout the summer to enjoy its recent success, does my hon. Friend foresee a reduction in the number of units serving in Northern Ireland perhaps by Christmas? Meanwhile, has my hon. Friend noticed an increase in the propaganda campaign which is normally directed against units which are particularly successful in Northern Ireland?

§ Mr. Gilmour
Yes, I agree with my hon. Friend. As he knows, we keep the level of our forces in Northern Ireland under continual review. If the level of violence continues to decrease we shall, of course, bring more troops home. My hon. Friend is right in saying that there have been a considerable number of general charges of brutality, and these are usually directed against successful troops. Specific allegations which are backed by evidence we investigate carefully, but general charges are entirely repudiated.

§ Mr. Fitt
In view of the mounting toll of deaths which have been brought about in the past fortnight by the British Army, about which it has expressed regret and said that mistakes have been made, and in view of the harassment that is now taking place in the city of Belfast and throughout Northern Ireland, will the hon. Gentleman say whether any different policy is being pursued by the Army? Is 237 he aware that if the Army continues with the present attitude in Northern Ireland, the whole of the White Paper proposals will be in serious danger of defeat?

§ Mr. Gilmour
I strongly deprecate the expression used by the hon. Gentleman about the mounting toll of deaths brought about by the British Army. The mounting toll of death has been brought about by incidents of terrorism in Northern Ireland. If the Army makes a mistake and there is an accident the Army greatly regrets it—and, indeed, the Army has expressed its regret, as I express my regret. That is undoubted. But the whole House will agree that, faced with the terrorist situation which the Army has faced in the last two years, we have been extremely relieved and grateful that accidents so seldom happen.

§ Mr. Srratton Mills
There appears to be a very much larger range of activity by the military police in conjunction with the RUC. In welcoming that, may I ask whether my hon. Friend has any plans to extend this type of force, which has been outstandingly successful?

§ Mr. Gilmour
I agree that the force has been successful, and when opportunities arise we shall seek to extend it.

§ Mr. Peart
May I say on behalf of the Opposition that we defend the Army's position in Northern Ireland? We believe that our troops have performed a magnificent task and we give them our wholehearted support.

§ Mr. Gilmour
I am most grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for what he has said.

§ 15. Mr. Stratton Mills
asked the Minister of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the security situation in the Ardoyne area of Belfast.

§ The Under-Secretary of State for Defence for the Army (Mr. Peter Blaker)
There have been a number of serious outbreaks of violence in the Ardoyne area, but recent weeks have seen a considerable improvement. The situation is still not satisfactory, and the Army will continue to take all practicable steps to protect the community.

§ Mr. Mills
I welcome my hon. Friend's answer. Is he aware, however, of the extent to which people are suffering in 238 this area due to extensive terrorist activity? Such activity particularly affects elderly people. Will my hon. Friend give an assessment of the success that there has been in the last few months against the IRA in this area? In particular, will he give an assurance that the Ardoyne area will continue to be given top priority by the security forces?

§ Mr. Blaker
As my hon. Friend knows, the detailed deployment of troops on the ground is a matter for the local commanders. While the situation remains as it has been in recent months, I am sure that the local commanders will give the Ardoyne very high priority.
I can produce figures—and I will send them to my hon. Friend—which show that there has been a dramatic fall particularly in the last two weeks in the number of incidents compared with the first three months of this year.

§ Mr. McNamara
Will the hon. Gentleman, in his discussions with his Department and with the local commanders concerned in the Ardoyne, point out to them that a White Paper has been passed which, it is hoped, will bring a new climate and a new approach to problems in Northern Ireland? Does he accept that it is very necessary that those who may in the past have been hostile to the Government and to the Government's intentions should be able to see on the ground the change which is reflected in the White Paper? Will the Minister accept that the harassment of Republican clubs, which seems to have gone on apace and which has increased since the Republican clubs have been withdrawn from the proscribed list, is something which must be considered carefully if we are to have the peace which is wanted in the Ardoyne area in future?

§ Mr. Blaker
I very much welcome the opening remarks of the hon. Gentleman. I do not accept that there is deliberate harassment by the security forces. The hon. Gentleman knows that if there are complaints they are carefully investigated Machinery exists, which is well known, for that purpose.

§ Rev. Ian Paisley
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is a small housing estate on the left-hand side going up past the Ardoyne fire station and that the people living in that estate have been 239 subjected to terrible harassment? Is he aware that they have been attacked as they have gone in and out of the estate? Will he give an assurance to the House that the security of these people—they have already made representations to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland —will be carefully considered and that everything will be done to give them personal safety?

§ Mr. Blaker
I assume that the hon. Gentleman is not referring to alleged harassment by the Army?

§ Rev. Ian Paisley
No.

§ Mr. Blaker
I am glad to have the hon. Gentleman's confirmation. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the needs of that area will be borne in mind by the local commander, in the way in which he normally pays attention to areas which are in special need.

§ Mr. McManus
Will not the hon. Gentleman accept, even for once, that most of the trouble and much of the loss of life in the Ardoyne area is due to the excesses of the Parachute Regiment in particular? Will he now issue instructions that the paratroops be withdrawn from the area?

§ Mr. Blaker
I do not accept what the hon. Gentleman is saying. What is more, the facts do not support what he has said. In the first three months of this year there was an improvement in many other areas but there was regular trouble in the Ardoyne. The position in the last few weeks, since the Parachute Regiment has been there, is that the trouble in the Ardoyne has diminished.