§ 2. Mr. Strangasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement outlining the representations he has made to the illegal régime in Rhodesia on recent developments in that country.
§ 33. Mr. Haselhurstasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth 1297 Affairs if he will make a statement on the latest developments in Rhodesia.
§ 36. Mr. Molloyasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the latest developments in Rhodesia.
§ The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Sir Alec Douglas-Home)As the House knows, I made representations to the Rhodesian authorities following the detention of Mr. Niesewand and leading African National Council members. I have also taken up with Mr. Smith the matter of the recent trial of Mr. Niesewand.
I have seen the statement made by Mr. Smith on 5th April indicating that he would make a further attempt to secure a settlement. But, as I have all along made clear, what is now required is agreement between the races in Rhodesia on the basis for a settlement.
§ Mr. StrangWill the right hon. Gentleman assure us that the Government will follow up last Friday's message of protest to Ian Smith about the trial of Peter Niesewand? Will he take this opportunity of making it absolutely clear that no negotiations will take place with the illegal régime unless the Africans are directly represented, and, further, that any talk of independence means that political detainees will have to be released first?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeIt is quite clear that there must be a basic agreement between responsible Africans and the Rhodesian administration before any proposals can be seriously considered. As for the trial of Mr. Niesewand, what all of us on both sides of the House and in the country as a whole deplore is the fact that the Rhodesian authorities held these entire proceedings in camera and have allowed no details of the charges to be known, so that no one is in a position to judge either the charges or the penalties. That is the real offence that has been committed, which we thoroughly deplore.
§ Sir G. NabarroThe demerits of the Niesewand case aside, can my right hon. Friend say what progress or otherwise has been made in the matter of adherence to sanctions, and why this country should put up with the fact that an increasing 1298 number of our international colleagues— Japan, West Germany, Italy, France and several other members of the European Economic Community—are now trading freely with Rhodesia, whereas British goods are, evidently, wholly debarred?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeAs my hon. Friend says, we are maintaining sanctions. Many other countries are not. We are representing each case that comes to our notice where, in our opinion, there is conclusive evidence that sanctions have been broken. We must continue to do that and hope that the performance of other countries will improve.
§ Mr. MolloyRegarding the Niesewand trial, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his prompt and condemnatory statement has gained the overwhelming support of all hon. Members, and that he is to be congratulated? Will he see to it that any further indulgences of this sort of vulgarity receive the same treatment from him, as it must be quite clear to him that the Smith régime intends to trample on human rights and offend all canons of freedom, justice and democracy? Our nation has a responsibility to people of all colours and creeds in Rhodesia. Will the right hon. Gentleman make it clear that he intends at all times, as he has done recently, to be on their side?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeA Bill of Rights must be included in any future settlement. It was in the provisional proposals of 1971. Certainly there must be a Bill of Rights. But, returning to what I said earlier, the fact that the entire proceedings of the Niesewand trial were in secret has created the worst possible impression.
§ Mr. SorefDoes not my right hon. Friend concede that Rhodesia is in a state of war, being invaded by terrorists trained in Russia and China who are slaughtering black and white men, women and children in Rhodesia? In these circumstances is it not reasonable to expect stringent security regulations in Rhodesia, of the kind which would obtain in any other country?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeI agree with my hon. Friend that there is considerable pressure on Rhodesia and that terrorists are operating. That is true. But when charges are brought in court they should be made public, as, for example, they are 1299 in Northern Ireland now. That is not so in Rhodesia at present.
§ 9. Mr. Whiteheadasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he is satisfied with the operation of sanctions against the illegal régime in Rhodesia concerning asbestos exports from that country.
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeNo, Sir.
§ Mr. WhiteheadIs the Foreign Secretary aware that the latest figures released by the United Nations show a discrepancy of 96,000 tons in the amount of asbestos that South Africa claims to have exported and the amount which other countries are shown as importing from her? Bearing in mind that Rhodesia is believed to be exporting over 100,000 tons of asbestos to and through South Africa annually, and the fact that we are the second largest importers of South African asbestos, will the Foreign Secretary order an inquiry into the question whether we are inadvertently importing Rhodesian asbestos? Will he make strong representations to the United States, which now does so openly and flagrantly?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeOn the point about the United States, the hon. Member knows that we have made representations but the United States administration says that it is powerless to deal with the matter. As for British importation of asbestos, if the hon. Member has evidence which leads him to think that this country is importing asbestos against sanctions I hope he will let me have it.
§ Sir G. NabarroDoes my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary mean, in further reference to my earlier question, that the United States administration now disclaims any statutory responsibility for preventing the entry of such raw substances as chrome direct from Rhodesia? If that is the case the United States is virtually contracting out of its obligations in the United Nations.
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeIt is one of the facts of life that the United States does contract out in respect of this particular strategic material, which it says it would otherwise have to obtain from the Soviet Union.
§ Mr. Ronald King MurrayIs not the most inflammatory thing to have hap- 1300 pened in Rhodesia since UDI the detention of Mr. Niesewand? Will the Foreign Secretary see that the absestos stays in Rhodesia, for political purposes?