HC Deb 23 November 1972 vol 846 cc1504-6
13. Mr. Thomas Cox

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when she last met representatives of teaching staff employed in the Inner London Education Area to discuss matters for which she is responsible.

Mrs. Thatcher

There have been teachers from Inner London on deputations which have come to see me, but I have not met them separately.

Mr. Cox

I note that reply. Is the right hon. Lady aware that thousands of teachers are away from school today protesting against her deplorable action in deliberately stopping the negotiations on 20th October? Is she aware that this action, following so quickly after the savage cuts which she imposed on the minor works programme in London, has done more to destroy the morale of London teachers than any other action in recent years? Will she give an assurance to this House and to the thousands of teachers who will be here today that she is prepared to send back to the Burnham Committee the whole question of the London allowance, that she will abide by that Committee's decision and will in no way attempt to interfere with the negotiations, as she has done in the past?

Mrs. Thatcher

During the Chequers talks, negotiations in Burnham were suspended. When the Chequers talks broke down I immediately saw the Chairman of Burnham, the local education authorities and the teachers. They decided to meet on that day, and an offer was made which was accepted by one of the committees of Burnham, namely the college of education teachers but not by the others. The minor works programme for London is calculated on a formula related to the number of children in the schools—

Mr. Cox

That is totally irrelevant.

Mrs. Thatcher

It is not totally irrelevant to a rational person. The number of children in the centres of cities is falling as families are moving outside to the suburbs and counties. Therefore, the minor works programme for the counties has gone up because the counties have more children.

Mr. Geoffrey Finsberg

Does my right hon. Friend agree that one solution would be for the teachers' London weighting allowance to be on the same basis as that which operates in local government and the Civil Service, that is, inner London weighting and outer London weighting?

Mrs. Thatcher

That course of action is open to the management panel of Burnham if it wishes to make that kind of offer. The Burnham system is exactly the same as that which was introduced and operated by the Labour Government. I have followed it precisely. The formula is calculated by reference to that which was created in 1967 by the National Board for Prices and Incomes. Some have the same London allowance for the whole of the greater London area, as do the teachers. Others choose to have the allowance in two tiers. If the management panel wishes to negotiate in two tiers, it has the majority voice on that issue with the local authorities.

Mr. Spearing

Will the right hon. Lady deny that on or before 20th October, before the talks had broken down, she made a specific request to the London authorities on the Burnham Committee not to put their offer—as had been promised—on that date? If she made that request, will she explain how it came within the terms of reference of the Government's statement of 26th September, which would have allowed the London weighting to go up by £104 before being affected by the freeze?

Mrs. Thatcher

Through my representatives on Burnham, I asked the committee not to make an offer—[HON. MEMBERS: "Disgraceful."]—there is nothing new about this—while the Chequers talks were in progress, as did Ministers in other Departments which were concerned with current negotiations. It was reasonable to do that when we were negotiating with the unions, the teachers being represented on the body that was holding voluntary negotiations. Those talks broke down on the Thursday night. On the Friday morning I saw the Chairman of Burnham, the local authorities and the teachers. They had a meeting on that day, so the undertaking to meet after that day was in fact honoured.

Mr. Cox

In view of the totally unsatisfactory nature of that reply I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible date.