Rhodesia

HC Deb 20 November 1972 vol 846 cc882-6

4. Mr. Robert Hughes

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what representations he has made to the Smith régime about the conditions of detention of political opponents of the régime.

The Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Lord Balniel)

Before and during the test of acceptability we made many representations about the detainees. Whilst there is no settlement it is very difficult to obtain any improvements for them. But we shall be prepared to renew our appeals on behalf of those who were detained during the test of acceptability.

Mr. Hughes

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some of these detainees have been held in custody without trial for up to seven years and that the conditions of detention are only one more example of the erosion of civil liberties in Rhodesia? Is he further aware that his continued protestations that there is really not much that he can do gives fuel to those who argue that the only solution in the Rhodesian situation is violence? Is that the future that he wants for Rhodesia?

Lord Balniel

We did our best for all the detainees during the negotiations last year. Now that the proposals have been rejected there is no basis on which we can effectively intervene. Nonetheless, I undertook in the House the other day to make certain representations. These will be made as soon as my inquiries are complete.

Mr. Biggs-Davison

While appreciating my right hon. Friend's concern, may I ask whether it is not the case that the number of political opponents now in detention is rather small? Will he tell us the number and state how it compares with the figure, for example, under Sir Edgar Whitehead?

Lord Balniel

The number is smaller than during the period that my hon. Friend has mentioned. As a result of negotiations last year, 54 detainees were released, but I cannot give my hon. Friend the exact number of those at present in detention. Approximately 65 would be the right figure.

Mr. Callaghan

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for undertaking to make further representations, but will he tell us how they will be made? Are they to be made orally?—we have no representatives there now, I believe—or in writing? Will he publish what he does? Even though—as my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Robert Hughes) says—the Government seem to take the view that there is nothing much they can do, is it not important that we should be seen to be making representations on behalf of these people, for whom we still have legal responsibility, especially as, quite rightly, we make representations to the Government of the USSR about the conditions of the Jews there, for whom we have far less responsibility?

Lord Balniel

As I have said, as soon as I have completed the inquiries that I have been making about certain of the detainees I hope to take action. Perhaps it can be left to me for the moment to decide what would be the appropriate action. I appreciate the general point made by the right hon. Member for Cardiff, South-East (Mr. Callaghan). The people of Rhodesia must be well aware by now of the deep concern felt in the House about the situation facing the detainees, and the representations that I shall be making will, I hope, underline this fact. I hope that my representations will be given appropriate and due weight by those at present in power in Rhodesia.

21. Miss Lestor

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps Her Majesty's Government is taking with the European Economic Community countries to ensure that they co-operate in the policy of sanctions against Southern Rhodesia.

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Mr. John Davies)

Our views on sanctions are well known to members of the European Economic Community. The application of Security Council Resolutions by member States is a matter between the States concerned and the United Nations.

Miss Lestor

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many people—some of whom, unlike me, are in favour of Britain's joining the Common Market—are appalled that this Government have not put more pressure on our prospective European partners who are among the biggest sanctions breakers? Will he raise this matter and will he also agree to read or get his right hon. Friend to read the recent document produced by the Africa Bureau called "Total Sanctions or Total Economic Warfare?" which lists 58 ways in which sanctions can be tightened up, including applications to EEC countries?

Mr. Davies

I will draw my right hon. Friend's attention to the publication. I emphasise to the hon. Lady that in ensuring that the provisions of the sanctions are carried out the efforts of the Government are directed towards the United Nations and not normally through the European Economic Community, though nothing prevents these matters being discussed within the Community.

Mr. Marten

If the hon. Member for Eton and Slough (Miss Lestor) is right that the countries of the European Community are breaking sanctions, should not Her Majesty's Government have made it a condition precedent that we would not deposit the ratification until they had ceased doing so?

Mr. Davies

No, I do not really think that we should. My right hon. Friend on a previous occasion has made well known to the House the efforts that the Government have undertaken to bring to bear the objections they have to the degree to which sanctions are being breached. But I repeat that action has to be taken through the United Nations.

Mr. Shore

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his reply has greatly surprised hon. Members on both sides? Is the right hon. Gentleman saying that in his view this is either not a proper matter to be discussed between ourselves and our future partners in Europe or that it makes no difference and that these matters could be dealt with equally well from outside?

Mr. Davies

Clearly the right hon. Gentleman did not hear what I said. I said that these and other matters were perfectly within the range of discussion with other members of the EEC.

Mr. David Steel

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that this would be a suitable matter for discussion by the European Parliament in Strasbourg?

Mr. Davies

Fortunately it is not for me to state what should be the business of the European Parliament.

28. Mr. Mikardo

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what representations he has made to the Government of the United States of America about American imports of chrome from Rhodesia.

The Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr. Julian Amery)

The United States Government themselves brought to the attention of the United Nations their decision to resume importing Rhodesian chrome ore.

The matter is one between the United States Government and the United Nations.

Mr. Mikardo

Whilst appreciating that Her Majesty's Government have little, if any, influence over the United States Government concerning their imports of chrome from Rhodesia, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that a large part of those imports of chrome ore from Rhodesia to the United States are being carried in British ships and that all these cargoes are being insured with Lloyds of London? Is not that a matter on which he has power to intervene and, that being so, ought he not to do so?

Mr. Amery

We are investigating all allegations of this kind which reach us.

Mr. Mikardo

It is not an allegation; it is a fact.

Mr. Amery

As far as I know, it is an allegation. We are investigating these matters. As the previous Administration were sufficiently misguided to place the whole question of sanctions in the lap of the United Nations, their subsequent supporters must understand it if we leave the matter to be determined between the United States and the United Nations.