Rents

HC Deb 15 November 1972 vol 846 cc398-402

7. Mr. Golding

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will state the average level of increases in council rents in October.

The Minister for Housing and Construction (Mr. Paul Channon)

Out of nearly 5 million council tenants in England and Wales approximately half had no increase in October. The average in rents met by council tenants over the whole of 1972–73 is, on the best estimate I can make, about 35p.

Mr. Golding

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that council tenants are bitter about the vindictive increases in rents imposed by the Government, which have been followed by a wage freeze, equally imposed by the Government? Will the hon. Gentleman assure us that there will be no further increases in rents until incomes have increased substantially?

Mr. Channon

The hon. Gentleman will not expect me to agree with his opening remarks. The Housing Finance Act was debated somewhat lengthily during its passage through the House, and the House knows the difference of opinion between the two sides. I could not accept what the hon. Gentleman says.

Mr. Kinsey

Will my hon. Friend take positive steps to introduce legislation to sell council house tenants—[Laughter.]—to sell council houses to tenants? Will he put them in a position to protect themselves from increases in rents by allowing them to purchase the houses in which they live?

Mr. Channon

My predecessor and I have both been extremely anxious to encourage the sale of council houses, and a circular strongly recommending this course of action was sent out recently.

Mr. Arthur Lewis

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in my constituency there are a number of council tenants who resent having to pay increased rents when they read that Ministers who have had their salaries doubled have tax-free, rent-free flats and houses worth thousands of pounds? They suggest that the Ministers concerned should pay the economic rents for those properties especially as, in addition to their use, they get free coal, heating, lighting, cleaning and everything that goes with them.

Mr. Channon

That is another question.

Mr. J. H. Osborn

Can my right hon. Friend say how many rent reductions there were in October, as against rent increases? If he cannot answer that now, when will he be in a position to let us know?

Mr. Channon

If my hon. Friend would like full details, perhaps he would put down a Question.

Mr. Freeson

Is it not the case that the Minister was mixing two mathematical processes in his first reply? Is it not correct that the average would be higher if it were worked out on the basis of where the rent increases took place in October, and that he has overlooked the fact that many of the tenants who did not pay an increase in October did not do so because, due to pressure by the Government under the Housing Finance Act, increases were imposed in the previous April?

Mr. Channon

Yes, Sir. That is precisely why I gave the figure for the average increase paid by council tenants for the whole of 1972–73.

21. Mr. Leonard

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will seek powers to reimburse local authorities for additional administrative expenses caused by delays by his Department in replying to applications made under Section 62(4) of the Housing Finance Act, 1972.

Mr. Channon

No, Sir. I cannot accept there has been any unreasonable delay by my Department. For 1972–73, councils' housing management costs are admissible in full for the purpose of rising costs subsidy.

Mr. Leonard

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the London Borough of Havering made application for a lower rent increase on the day the Act received the Royal Assent, but, having received no reply by 1st September, it was legally obliged to send out notification of a £1 a week rent increase from 1st October, whereas on 11th October it was informed by telephone that the increase should be only 90p? As it will now cost the ratepayers of Havering £1,100 to send out revised notices to its 14,000 tenants, will the hon. Gentleman accept the Government's full moral obligation to defray the expense of so doing? What does he propose to do about it?

Mr. Channon

As the hon. Gentleman knows, I was not in the Department at the time. However, I am told that the Department had to ask for additional information from the London Borough of Havering, but the authority said that it was too busy to provide it, so in the event the application had to be decided without this further information. Those are the facts which I have been given and, if that is the position, I must say that the hon. Gentleman's case has been somewhat over-stated.

Mr. Loveridge

Is my hon. Friend aware that the deliberate delays by the Labour-controlled London Borough of Havering in implementing the Housing Finance Act have in the end cost the tenants extra now than they would otherwise have had to pay?

Mr. Channon

I note what my hon. Friend says, and I am glad that the London Borough of Havering has now implemented the Act.

Mr. Freeson

Is the hon. Gentleman telling the House that he and his Department take decisions on proposed rent increases or reductions on the basis of absent information?

Mr. Channon

No. The decision was taken but it would have been easier to have decided this matter earlier if the London Borough of Havering had been prepared to provide the information rather than to say that it was too busy.

Mr. Leonard

On a point of order. In view of the totally unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I give notice that I will seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

22. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment approximately how many tenants' rents he estimates will be increased by an average of a further 50p in April, 1973, under the Housing Finance Act; how many additional tenants' rents will be increased by a similar sum in October, 1973; and if, in view of the rise in the cost of living involved, he will now withdraw the requirement to impose these and the current rent increases.

Mr. Channon

Because some rents are likely to be approaching very near to the fair rent level, it is impossible to make an accurate estimate in the terms of the hon. Member's Question. The answer to the second part of the Question is, "No, Sir."

Mr. Allaun

Will the Minister answer two questions? First, is he prepared to meet a national deputation representing the trade unions, the Labour Party, the councillors and the tenants' association? Second, will he admit that those tenants whose rent was increased by less than £1 by the Government last October will still have to suffer additional serious increases through the Government- appointed Rent Scrutiny Board, against whose decision there is no appeal?

Mr. Channon

The hon. Member knows as well as anyone else the terms of the Housing Finance Act. Rents are to be raised, in stages, to the fair rent level. Some rents are already approaching that level and those tenants who cannot afford to pay a fair rent will be protected for the first time by a national rebate scheme. This is a substantial advance.

Mr. Crosland

Will the hon. Gentleman now admit that the Housing Finance Act was introduced in those days of glorious rapture when the Government were not taking inflation seriously? Looking back it can be seen that we had a rise in housing costs almost unparalleled in our history. Will the hon. Gentleman now follow the example of a great number of his ministerial colleagues and accept that the Government's housing policy over the last two years has been disastrously inflationary, and that if there is to be any successful attempt to bring inflation under control there must be a major reversal of policy?

Mr. Channon

The right hon. Gentleman will not expect me to accept what he says. The policy of indiscriminate subsidy followed by the previous Administration was far more inflationary than the present policy. A policy of fair rents with rebates for those who cannot afford them, in the public and private sector, is one of the greatest advances in housing which this country has had.

Mr. Meacher

Will the hon. Gentleman state how many of the 750,000 council tenants estimated to have become entitled to rent rebates last month are actually in receipt of this means-tested benefit?

Mr. Channon

If the hon. Gentleman wants the exact figures I will try to find them, if he will put down a Question.

Mr. Allaun

On a point of order. I am sure that the Minister has overlooked my question about receiving a deputation.

Mr. Channon

If the hon. Member wishes to bring a deputation to see me perhaps he will be kind enough to write to me, and I will consider the matter.