Television Licences

HC Deb 08 November 1972 vol 845 cc983-7

8. Mr. Ashton

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what esti- mate he has made of the number of pensioners in receipt of concessionary television licences.

9. Mr. Leslie Huckfield

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will now introduce legislation enabling all retirement pensioners to benefit from the 5p concessionary television licence.

10. Mr. John D. Grant

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will take action to enable pensioners to purchase television licences quarterly.

20. Mr. Leslie Huckfield

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications how many representations he has received from hon. Members about extending the concessionary television licence scheme; and what reply he has sent.

Sir J. Eden

At 31st August last there were 163,450 retired people benefiting from the special television licence for old people's homes. I have received 34 representations from hon. Members asking for an extension of the categories of people eligible for the special licence. It has never been the policy of any Government to allow licence concessions for all retirement pensioners.

Mr. Ashton

If the Government can give all pensioners £10 in January, why can they not give all pensioners a cheap television licence? Is the Minister aware that the present concession covers only 2 per cent. of pensioners and is totally unfair to the rest?

Sir J. Eden

On the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question, it has generally been the purpose of Government—it is certainly that of the present Government—to improve the cash position of those who have retired so as to enable them independently to exercise their freedom of choice. On the second part of the question, as the hon. Gentleman well knows, this is an extremely difficult matter, which has been inherited from previous Governments. It is a matter which I have looked at very closely. Certainly one way out of the position would be to remove the anomaly altogether.

Mr. Marten

What does the Minister mean by his last remark? What anomaly could be removed altogether? Does he mean to scrap the licence altogether?

Sir J. Eden

No, Sir, to take a closer look at the justification for continuing in being the special 5p concession.

Mr. Leslie Huckfield

Does not the Minister realise how ridiculous the present boundary line entitlement is as the recent constituency case I put to him regarding Mrs. Storer shows? Does he not also realise that local authorities have only to extend their warden coverage to enable many old-age pensioners to gain the benefit of this concession? As this is now a ridiculous position, will he look again at the whole situation?

Sir J. Eden

I assure the House that I am looking at the whole position extremely carefully. It is fraught with difficulty. We can all think of constituency examples where this could be open to all kinds of abuse. There are two clear-cut alternative ways out of this dilemma neither of which I particularly favour. But I am looking at the whole range of possibilities.

Mr. Grant

We appreciate the difficulties, but will the Minister stop hiding behind the skirts of previous Administrations on this issue and treat it on its merits, which are considerable? Will he tell his civil servants to draw up a scheme for implementing this change, instead of giving a list of reasons why it cannot be done?

Sir J. Eden

It is not a case of skirts or anything to do with that. It is the fact that this anomaly is now in existence and has existed for some time. It gives rise to a great deal of ill-will. There are a number of ways out of this dilemma, none of which, honestly, would commend itself to all quarters of opinion in the House.

Mr. Sydney Chapman

I appreciate what my right hon. Friend has said, and that he is looking at the problem, and I appreciate the basic point of view of the present Government and the previous Government. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the fact that there is already a concessionary TV licence is causing irritation and bitterness among needy people in our community? As this concession already exists, it should naturally be extended to those who really need it.

Sir J. Eden

I very much recognise the force of the first part of my hon. Friend's question.

Mr. Gregor Mackenzie

Reverting to an earlier answer that the Minister gave, may I ask him if he recognises that any plans to remove what he called "the anomalies" would not find favour on either side of the House? It is clear that on both sides of the House, although we appreciate the difficulties, there is a great desire to increase the scope of a concession like this, whether it be done by means of a free licence or by reexamining the financing of the BBC. I hope that the Minister will take this in hand urgently and give us an answer fairly soon on these points.

Sir J. Eden

I cannot promise an early answer, but I need no encouragement to look at the matter closely and urgently.

11. Mr. Farr

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will take steps to introduce a quarterly and half-yearly television licence.

Sir J. Eden

No. Short-term licences would call for more staff and add to the costs of the licensing system. The television savings card provides a way for people to save for a licence.

Mr. Farr

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. Will he look at the way factors have changed in recent years, in that a colour television licence now costs £12, many people would prefer to concentrate on seasonal viewing, many visitors from overseas would like a quarterly or half-yearly licence only, and there are old-age pensioners who cannot afford to pay the full £12 for a colour licence or the lower fee for a black-and-white licence?

Sir J. Eden

I have some sympathy with my hon. Friend's views but, in a way, my hon. Friend misunderstands the purpose for which the licence fee is paid. It is paid to operate a receiving set at the home. If it were to be changed so as to operate it on a different basis and to have it for different times of the year it would substantially increase the costs of administration and add disproportionately to the burden of administration.

Mr. Skinner

May I help the Minister out of the terrible dilemma he is in in the whole argument about the licence? Will he encourage local authorities to take over an umbrella warden scheme for all public and private tenants? Then, during the rate support grant negotiations which are to take place shortly under the Counter-Inflation (Temporary Provisions) Bill, the Government should assist those local authorities to offset that amount of money and in that way the Post Office would not be embarrassed.

Sir J. Eden

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his offer of help. In some ways his supplementary question would have been more appropriately asked on the previous Question.

Mr. Skinner

I could not get in then.