HC Deb 18 May 1972 vol 837 cc669-72
9. Mr. Roderick

asked the Minister of State for Defence whether he will introduce a White Paper publishing the reasons for the transfer of control of the Atomic Weapons Research Establishment at Aldermaston from the Department of Trade and Industry to the Ministry of Defence and the implications for the Ministry of Defence.

33. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Minister of State for Defence if he will publish in a White Paper the reasons for the transfer of the Atomic Weapons Research Establishment at Aldermaston from the Department of Trade and Industry to the control of the Ministry of Defence, and also the effects of this transfer.

The Minister of State for Defence Procurement (Mr. Ian Gilmour)

No, Sir. The introduction of legislation for the transfer of the establishment will provide a full opportunity for further discussion of the reasons for the transfer.

Mr. Roderick

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the concern felt by many Members about the difficulty of obtaining information from his Ministry? What assurance can he give that security will not be used as an excuse to reduce the Minister to silence on questions about Aldermaston?

Mr. Gilmour

I do not think the hon. Gentleman's opening remark was fair. I do not think there has been the difficulty he alleges. I am sure that any information which should be given will continue to be given under the new arrangement.

Mr. Allaun

Does the hon. Gentleman recall that some years ago the House was promised that the proportion of civil work at Aldermaston—I think about 20 per cent.—would be increased? Can he give an assurance that this increase will take place, despite the transfer to his Ministry, when industry engaged in peaceful uses is so greatly in need of increased research and development?

Mr. Gilmour

No, I cannot give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. But civil use of atomic energy will in no way be prejudiced by this transfer.

Mr. John Morris

Can the hon. Gentleman assist us about the civil use of the resources? If this establishment comes under the Ministry of Defence, how can the Government ensure that the civil use rôle is not diminished and that the Ministry of Defence will not take a much larger share of valuable scientific research resources? Why must we wait for legislation, whenever that may be introduced, before we can have the reasons for the transfer?

Mr. Gilmour

The answer to the first part of the supplementary question is the same as the reason why the military use of atomic energy has not been prejudiced under the present arrangement. There is continual consultation between the Ministry of Defence and the Department of Trade and Industry. The basic reasons for the transfer were given by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry on 5th August last year. In brief, 80 per cent. of the work is for the Ministry of Defence, and the bringing of the AWRE into the Ministry of Defence will facilitate the rationalisation of research and defence establishments.

12. Mr. Booth

asked the Minister of State for Defence whether he has completed the preparation of legislation for the purpose of transferring the control of the Atomic Weapons Research Establishment at Aldermaston from the Department of Trade and Industry to the Ministry of Defence.

Mr. Ian Gilmour

It will not now be possible to carry through legislation during the present Session. The Government intend to introduce a Bill early in the forthcoming Session with a view to making the transfer in the spring of 1973.

Mr. Booth

Does not the Minister agree that it is regrettable that the position of staff engaged in research and development at the AWRE should remain under a shadow until next Session because of the mess in which the Government find themselves with their legislation and the way they have arranged the legislative programme? Will the Minister give an assurance that nothing will be done by his Department in anticipation of the Bill and that, until the House has considered it, there will remain to the House full accountability for the use of scientific staff at Aldermaston as is the case while the AWRE is under the Department of Trade and Industry?

Mr. Gilmour

Any delay in the Government's legislative programme is a matter of great regret for the whole House. There are some disadvantages in this case, but I assure the hon. Gentleman that negotiations are in progress with the staff and trade union sides and I am hopeful that a satisfactory conclusion will be reached. Meanwhile the ordinary processes of parliamentary accountability are not affected.